Khaddam Interviews and Syrian Views
I would like to thank the many people who have been commenting on SC since I left Damascus and who have kept the site up to date and provided many interesting links and good analysis. Forgive me for reposting some of the things they have brought to our attention in the main pages. Some readers don't dip into the comment section frequently and I thought it was important to copy some of the most pertinent material to the main page. I haven't always given credit where it is due, but I am grateful all the same. On that note, let me also say that many people in Washington do read the comment section regularly. I was just in DC to attend an on-going seminar on Syria that is being run by a think tank there, and a number of people at the table referred to observations made by people in the comment section. So keep on giving your two cents. It makes a difference.
Saudi Arabia and Egypt are again trying to broker a way for Syria to avoid a direct confrontation with the UN and still cooperate with the UN.
Syria's Assad in Egypt After Saudi VisitHere are a few more links to Khaddam interviews and articles supplied by T_desco and Adonis among others in the comment section.
By REUTERS
Published: January 8, 2006
CAIRO (Reuters) - Syrian President Bashar al-Assad flew to Egypt and Saudi Arabia on Sunday for talks on Lebanon, a day after diplomats said Assad had rejected a U.N. request to interview him about a former Lebanese prime minister's murder.
``(The king) affirmed the kingdom's desire for stronger relations between Syria and Lebanon in all fields, so that the interests of both countries and security of the region are protected,'' said a statement on the Saudi state news agency SPA, after a meeting and banquet in Jeddah. It gave no more details.
Saudi Arabia, a key U.S. ally, said in November it had brokered a deal between Damascus and the United Nations to allow the questioning of five Syrian officials in Vienna.
Adel al-Harbi, political editor at the leading Saudi daily al-Riyadh, said Saudi Arabia wanted to find a way for Assad to meet the U.N. team without harming Syria's sovereignty.
``The anxiety here and in Arab countries is that Syria doesn't cooperate. Saudi Arabia is trying to get them to cooperate with the investigation to find the truth,'' he said. ``An interview which respects Syrian sovereignty does no harm in itself, as long as it is an interview and not questioning.''
Diplomats say Syria agreed to allow investigators to meet Foreign Minister Farouq al-Shara, who accompanied Assad on his Saudi trip.
``It seems that there are Saudi and Egyptian efforts to find a comprehensive regional and international agreement regarding the U.N. request to meet President Assad,'' said Syrian political analyst Imad Shuaibi. ``The U.N. request violated (international) protocol by naming the witnesses whom the commission wanted to meet.''
Assad, in an interview with an Egyptian paper, said this week that as president he had international immunity, indicating that U.N. investigators could not insist on interviewing him.
Hassan Fattah of the New York Times: "A Critic, in Exile, Aims More Barbs at the President of Syria." - January 6, 2006. Here is a quote:
Mr. Khaddam repeated his allegation that Mr. Assad had personally threatened Mr. Hariri. Although he again stopped short of directly implicating Mr. Assad in the assassination, Mr. Khaddam gave more details of Mr. Assad's interaction with Mr. Hariri, and he harshly criticized Mr. Assad's increasingly aggressive governing style.Newsweek by Christopher Dickey.
"You could see that there was this disgust toward Hariri, and he was fearing his growing power in Lebanon and its implications for Lahoud," Mr. Khaddam said.
He said he had pondered resigning as far back as 2003, three years after Bashar al-Assad rose to power, but finally stepped down in June 2005, after his attempts at reform were rebuffed, he said.
"Things are dangerous now, but the biggest danger is that the regime cannot make a smart decision anymore," he said. And he added another personal criticism of Mr. Assad: "The size of the responsibility he faces is bigger than him. And the people around him only serve to pump his ego and lie to him."
Do you think you will ever be able to go back to Syria?David Ignatius writes in the Post of January 4, "Mob War In The Mideast."
Yes, I will be back. And it’s not in the distant future that I’ll be back.
What is the actual picture you have of the way things will develop in the next few months.
When the scenario starts to materialize all the people are going to see it. [But] if there is a big political agenda it is not feasible to make it public in the press.
Does your vision of Syria include any members of the Assad family?
The Assad family is one family in Syria. Whoever rules Syria will be decided solely by voting and ballots. Whoever gets the ballots, he will make the decision along with the Syrian people in that regard.
You’re not afraid that the Muslim Brotherhood will get all the ballots?
No. In Syria, Christians and Muslims have a religious consciousness, but they are not fanatics. It’s a kind of mosaic of religions in equilibrium. And the Muslim Brothers now have enhanced their way of thinking, and they have come up with a new liberal agenda. And naturally when we talk about an open and democratic state, everyone is welcome to present his agenda.
In the gangster movies, you know all hell is about to break loose when one of the disgruntled old dons decides to switch sides and rat out the young Godfather. Something like that is now happening with Syria -- and it provides a new year's bombshell for an already turbulent Middle East.The Nouvel Observateur:
Jumblatt says he hopes America will stand by the Cedar Revolution. "If Bush considers Lebanon one of his major achievements, now is the time to protect Lebanon," he told me. When I asked what he wanted from America, he answered: "You came to Iraq in the name of majority rule. You can do the same thing in Syria."
Interrogé dans la matinée sur une responsabilité du président syrien Bachar el-Assad dans cet attentat perpétré le 14 février 2005 à Beyrouth, il a répondu: "Je ne peux pas le nier, même si je ne peux pas affirmer qu'il soit responsable".From interview with Asharq Al-Awsat as translated by al-Jazeera.net:
Khaddam said that he was rallying Syrian opposition parties to "create the right atmosphere for the Syrian people to topple the regime."
“This regime cannot be reformed. The only alternative is to overthrow it.”
Khaddam accuses shaleesh and Makhlouf of monpoly
RTL: as quoted in "Le Monde."Syria-news has an article in Arabic which explains how Khaddam was the main opponent of the Damascus Spring movement in 2000. It quotes Khaddam's famous speech at the university of Damascus during the second half of 2000 in which he criticized the Damascus Spring movement for demanding the end of emergency law. He stated that Syria would not allow the "Algeriazation of Syria." In other words, he claimed that if Syria allowed democratic freedoms, the Islamists would win and the country would slip toward civil war.
Adonis points out that I am wrong about Mustafa Tlas. I wrote yesterday that he is a Damascene. He writes: "He is not damascene but from a Village near Homs, Rastan." I stand corrected, but let me add that whereas Khaddam and sons have built their mansions in Banyas, Tlas has greater aristocratic pretensions. He married Lamia Al-Jabiri in 1958, who is from the noted Aleppine family of Saadallah al-Jabiri, the leader of the Aleppo branch of the National Bloc during the French Mandate years and right hand man of Syria's first president, Shukri al-Quwatli. His son, Firas is also married to a Jabiri, if my memory serves me, making him more Jabiri than Tlas. By marrying well for two generations, the Tlases outrank the Khaddams in their social connections and pretensions. A very small point, but one worth making as Syrian society is very conscious of such things. Tlas is also responsible for rehabilitating the standing of the old Sunni notable class through his work as a publisher of history books and by supporting a new television series of biographies of the men and women who made Syria during the 20th century, which is now going into production and which will champion such notable families as his in-laws and the Quwatlis. Tlas is also responsible for having portraits of all past presidents and prime ministers of Syria hung on the walls of the People's Assembly. Indeed the Tlases have no equals within the Baath Party as champions of the old urban notables, who were so precipitously dismissed from the scene in the 1960s and shamelessly written out of Syrian history. It is such activities, not to mention horseback riding, gardening, etc. that have won the Tlases a firmer place in Damascene society than the Khaddams enjoy.
Majed khaldoon adds:
How could Mr. Landis make such mistake, Tlas is hated in Damascus. People say he loves women, money and he was a supporter of assad family, he is from a city north of Homs. The revolution in 1963 was anti Damascus revolution.
In closing, I will copy two emails that I received recently. Both are Syrians. The first is from a middle-aged man from an old notable Sunni family who presently lives in the US. He believes that the Asads will soon be out of power and that the transition will be non-violent. The second is by a young Syria, living in the Emirates, who argues that the president and Syria did not kill Hariri, a view, he insists that is still prevalent among his Syrian friends.
Dear Mr. Landis: Some thoughts about current events in Syria!?Here is the second.
As the regime of Al-Assad/Al-Baath is coming to a close soon I thought of two items worth keeping in mind for a post Assad regime.
1- I do sincerely believe that the transition of powers will be a peaceful one, despite a few incidents here and there. Why? The Syrian society is a mercantile society at heart (not an agrarian society nor a heavily industrialized society), has been and always will. A Mercantile society does not like violence. It is bad for business (Ask the Dutch). Syria through out its history has encountered a multitude of occupations and different kind of occupiers since the dawn of its history, and the people of that land remained resilient and capable of bypassing many agonies of tyrants that attempted to destroy the nature of that culture.
2- Many fears a form of sectarian violence in the aftermath of the toppling of the regime, these will not happen! Again, because the nature of the Syrian "mercantile" nature, and again, religion and open religious persuasions meaning the forced application of one religious view against another views is(are) very bad for business...always the case for Syria and will always be the case...Probably the Dutch learned from the Syrians on how to be tolerant in this scenario.
3- The other factor that will prevent a sectarian violence from taking place is the well integrated Syrian society especially in cities like Damascus, Homs and Aleppo. Most neighborhoods and especially the new sections of these cities are homes to a well integrated society. These voluntary integration and population movements have been taking place since independence. Remembering my neighborhood, it was loaded with all kinds and different sorts of Christian families, two Kurdish families, two Alawi families, Armenians, and one Jewish family for good measure and what not!!!??? We were all friends and neighbors and all shared the joy of festivities with each others and the sad ones when a someone get sick or die. Perhaps things have changed since my departure many moons ago as a young man, but that is how things were in that neighborhood...
That is why many people's concern about the future of violence in Syria is highly unfounded, yours included...
Later. E. J.
What went through the mind of normal Syrians since Monday, February 14, 2005?
After reading, watching and listening to endless analysis (mostly presented by non-Syrians) for 328 days (according to Future TV's now sacred calendar!) all firmly claiming to represent the Syrian people's voice, I just can't take it anymore. I think that the final straw was Junblat's latest hysteric low, inviting the US to "invade Syria complying to public Syrian demands". How hypocritical and opportunistic can someone get? Away from Junblat's now non-stop insults to my intelligence as a Syrian, many non-Syrians have continuously asked: What went through your mind (as a normal politically-independent Syrian) when trying to make sense of "What the hell is happening" in the last 11 months? I just wanted to share this, and unlike Junblat, Khaddam, Sa'ad, Ghadry, Bush, many of the regime figures or the endless "analysts" and "experts" on the Syrian people's inner minds, I do claim to represent some majority of Syrian youth, mothers and fathers.Until more credible data are presented, the following is how I (and the overwhelming majority of Syrians I've met) see the whole series of events and I argue that many many Lebanese share this view. I think that every Syrian during the last 11 months consciously or subconsciously went through the following analysis trying to make sense of who committed these crimes and why were they committed:
Isn't it possible that someone from the Syrian regime committed these crimes?
ABSOLUTELY... largely unlikely though.. Much analysis was printed and broadcasted since the crime took place on why the Syrians must have done it. Revenge, jealousy and preemptive attack on Hariri are just few of the proposed motives, but the funniest was the "they hated our freedom" Dubbia nonsense adopted by many analysts. The Syrian regime has all the capabilities needed to commit the crime, but it lacked a motive, will and even the guts to do it. If it was really done by someone in the Syrian regime (out of blind revenge presumably for 1559 or as a preemptive attack to eliminate Hariri before the elections) then the Syrian people should be ready to face internal struggles to pinpoint and isolate the people who did it from the country as a whole. This is an extremely complicated thing to do after 40 years of brutal grip on power by the regime PLUS the plethora of external parties itching to jump to the occasion and punish Syria the country, not just the regime, to fulfill their own agendas that is largely against the Syrian people's interests. I personally believe that the Syrian people are not ready to carry out this process in a radical manner, as this might lead to economic or security unrests or worse.. civil war (where external factors would be the main catalyst). Such a conflict if it took place, is something that would potentially create another ethnically-divided or sectarian-based entity in the ME to be added to Lebanon, Iraq and Israel. If the regime is found guilty (after a convincing trial) then the Syrian people (as I see it) would voluntarily do it in a way that guarantees Syria's interest first and not any other regional or international party's interest on Syria's expense (be it an "jasmine revolution" or some other way).
I'm not saying that the culprits should not face justice, I'm simply saying that, until now, we don't know for sure who exactly planned and committed it and until we become 100 percent sure it should be "BUSINESS AS USUAL" in Syria. External parties should not be allowed to harm Syrian interests, economy, dignity, rights and security in the process by exploiting the grievances of the victims of these crimes or the opportunistic politicians (such as Junblat inviting the US "to invade Syria" in the Washington Post or Khaddam proposing himself as "the alternative"!).
The logical question here would be: WHY IS SYRIA THEN STALLING THE INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION IF IT HAS NOTHING TO HIDE? My view is that there are multiple reasons: There is the somewhat justified "preserving Syrian dignity" excuse (unfortunately it is something becoming obsolete by the day!). The second reason for "not cooperating" is the justified fears of infiltration and spying (does the word UNSCOM ring a bell?). But the most important reason for the "slow" and "conflicting" Syrian cooperation would be because the Syrian regime does have a lot to hide, but it is not necessarily linked to the Hariri affaire. The Syrian regime (as almost every other political administration in the world) has a lot of "dirty laundry" that it does not want to be exposed. They are simply trying to hide stuff such as corruption, money laundering and other illegalities that were committed by the Syro-Lebanese mafias in Syria and Lebanon. Stuff that would definitely be exposed in any inquiry into Syrian Lebanese relations in the last 30 years. Any sane politician would want to hide such stuff from the public.
If it's not the Syrians then who was it and why?
The main suspects are: First.. Israel.
I know that many people don't want to hear its name in the Hariri issue (mainly because it was used as a scapegoat for too long by Arab dictatorships that even when it is a credible suspect, many people tend not to believe it no more!). Nonetheless, Israel had a strong motive, the capabilities and the political cover (just in case). Allow me to elaborate:
You have to admit that Israel was the main beneficiary of the whole thing.. Syria is in deep deep trouble, Lebanon is in deep deep chaos and ultimately -and most importantly- Hizballah is very very cornered and on the road do be dismantled (which would constitute the main motive).
Let's look at the facts.. we have fanatics in Washington stating publicly that they support "constructive chaos" in the middle east that would change things to "the better". We have a regional party (Israel) with strong will and motives (cornering Syria, destabilizing Lebanon and ultimately getting rid of Hizballah). It has a long experience in political assassinations (countless such surgically accurate car bombs over the last 25 years in Palestine and Lebanon at least!). Finally, it also possesses the capabilities from the technology to the required agents (hundreds of Israel's agents infiltrated within the Lebanese society.. the Lahdists and SLA members -with Lebanese blood on their hands- that were granted amnesty after 2000, among others).
Excuse me for putting the following analysis of the series of crimes so bluntly: The series of murders fits very well in the scenario of framing Syria. Think about the following: Hariri was killed in an extraordinary point of time when his relation with Syria is in one of its very few low points. A point of time when such a crime would easily be pinned on Syria (which was successfully achieved). Basel Fuleihan was a collateral damage. Hawi was killed to push the Lebanese left to an extreme anti-Syria position (to manipulate the parties that support Syria out of their hate for Israel) and to become more outspoken against Syria (which was successfully achieved too). Given the emotional nature of Arabs in general, Samir Kassir and May Chidiac were chosen very smartly to supply the Lebanese, Arabic and international media with a further negative emotional charge against Syria (which also was successfully achieved). Allow me to be more detailed here: Killing Kassir made Annahar and Al-Arabyia channel (that his wife work for as an anchor) explode emotionally against Syria which lead to further manipulation of Arab public opinion towards blaming Syria (which also was successfully achieved). May Chidiac was targeted to do the same with Al-Hayat and LBC. Jubran was killed on the eve of the security council meeting to guarantee that the harshest resolution possible would be passed and to give an extremely hard time to countries trying to make it softer (which also was relatively successfully achieved). Pushing Junblat to his seizure of hysteria against both Syria and Hizballah came as a bonus (or was it planned?!). If it really was Syria trying to take revenge and/or terrorize its Lebanese critics then wouldn't you say that any one of those idiots in the Syrian mukhabarat would have waited for two days so the Security Council would pass a softer resolution and then take revenge or terrorize by killing Jubran?!
IT'S A SIMPLE CALCULATION REALLY.. YOU KILL ONE OUTSPOKEN SYRIA CRITIC AND A THOUSAND IS INSTANTLY CREATED INSIDE AND OUTSIDE LEBANON (you also get the media to emotionally lash out against Syria as a bonus!). If it was the Syrians doing it then they would have taken a lesson from the Marwan Hamade attempt that this is what is happening, wouldn't they? My mind refuses to accept the idea that the Syrians would intentionally alienate the Saudis and the French, give the neo-cons and Israelis a dream-come-true moment, extremely weaken Hizballah intentionally, shoot themselves in the foot and not learn the lesson then chose to shoot themselves in the leg and then in the stomach and so on and, moreover, keep doing the exact same mistake at the extremely precise timings that would do them the MOST harm possible!!!!!! The people in the Syrian regime are absolutely no angels, but I would give them a little more credit than this on the "common sense" front!
For Marwan Hamade, I think he was a "test balloon" (to probe the public and political reaction) by whoever did the whole series of crimes. I think that the criminal system (I'm convinced that it is an experienced and very capable system) had a theory on who the media and public fingers would be pointing at after attempting to kill Hamade (and it helped pointing them that way). They tested that theory and it worked out, therefore they continued to the REAL target. The hastily fabricated abu-Addas tape proves this theory as the Syrians and Lebanese security system were totally confused and not ready to deal with the aftermath of Hariri crime (otherwise if they managed to successfully plan to kill Hariri for a year avoiding the French, American and Saudi intelligence plus his own security detecting anything, then I'm sure they would have been better prepared with a stronger story than Abu Addas, wouldn't they?). If they were able to carry the politically and technically complex planning and execution of the crime then they might as well have been capable of providing a more credible alternative suspect. Furthermore, if they were really planning to do it for a year, then it's common sense to make friends with Hariri publicly after he was forced to leave office, just to have a good defense when they kill him.. "hey, don't accuse us we were his friends up to the last moment"!. These guys might (and might not) have threatened Hariri, but that does not necessarily mean that they killed him in my opinion. If they did threaten him, then it would be one of those ugly and stupid methods used by security-oriented regimes to achieve their political goals. It won't be the first time nor the last where a dominating political power threaten a personality -one way or another- in our world to achieve it's goals (I'm not condoning but listing facts). BUT I'm more interested in knowing who exactly knew that Hariri was threatened by the Syrians (if he really was threatened) and took advantage of this information in carrying out the whole thing and framing Syria (according to Khaddam, the criminals had enough time as the crime took place 8 months after the threat actually took place according to Khaddam.. if it really did)!
One more thing, my mind refuse to be convinced that the Syrians and Lebanese top security people (along with at least 20 people) were planning it for a year (according to Mehlis) and that Khaddam (the powerful ruler of Lebanon and well connected Syrian VP for 35 years) was not aware of anything! If they did it then he knew and kept it silent (which is unlikely given his strong business and family relation with the Hariris), otherwise they did not do it and therefore he did not know.
Oh and by the way, to all the political and media analysts who keep bombarding the Syrians with their analysis of how the Syrian regime thought that they would kill Hariri and the Lebanese would wake up the next day, go about taking care of their own businesses and overlook the crime! It is simply a very shallow analysis that any simple person who was reading news since resolution 1559 would not make. I remember my jaws dropping when I heard the news on February 14th last year saying to myself "Massive demonstrations in downtown Beirut coming up!". It also was the reaction of every Syrian and Lebanese I met that day. I received at least 20 phone calls from friends who all agreed that there would be huge shockwaves in Lebanon against Syria. Oh and the most important thing is, at that day I was invited to a Lebanese community meeting (outside Syria obviously!) where people were not radical in their reaction. The position of the majority of the people I asked that day was: "It could not be Syria, regardless, I think that Syria would take lot's of sh** for it". Two days later, after endless hours of emotionally-charged incitement on every news outlet on planet earth, I met with many of the same Lebanese persons who thought that "It simply couldn't be Syria" two days ago. The new reaction was.. you guessed it.. "&^%$#@! Syrian, why did you kill our Mr. Lebanon?". The moral of the story is: IT WAS CLEAR FOR EVERY IDIOT ON EARTH THAT SYRIA WOULD BE BLAMED, so you would think that the people who did it would have definitely thought that this would happen.. AND ACTUALLY COUNTED ON IT!. So to those Lebanese, Arab and international "experts" and "analysts" I say: Please please please spare us the "They though that it would be a crime that would pass like their other crimes in Lebanon" rhetoric!
Not Syria, Not Israel, who else then?
The other suspect would be someone from the Lebanese warlords who benefited from the crime. Some do have motives and capabilities to do it. I'll not continue in this route as it's largely unlikely (though the analysis took place subconsciously in my mind!). It's worth noting though that we are speaking about vicious warlords with Lebanese blood on their hands who were and still are capable of committing such a political crime (Ja'ja, Aoun, someone from the Phalange or the Lahdists to name a few Lebanese parties that gained huge political benefits from this horrendous murder). This is not an accusation as it is a list of few facts. Some of those also had killed a former Lebanese PM by blowing up his helicopter before, so it's not that unlikely!
On that note, I think it would be unreasonable to pick and chose from Khaddam's (now countless and increasingly-boring-and-disgusting) speeches and use double standards. If he is saying the truth then the Lebanese should consider all of what he offered.. and therefore not use double standards and celebrate and award the killer of a former Lebanese prime minister "Karami" (who if I may frankly add was a more patriotic and a less corrupt Lebanese than Hariri). Khaddam made it clear that Ja'ja killed Karami where there was no reason for him to lie on this now. In the other hand Khaddam had the many reasons mentioned in my earlier comment (http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/L/Joshua.M.Landis-1/syriablog/2006/01/syrians-view-of-khaddam-patronage.htm) to lie in his remarks about "Assad threatening Hariri" (namely: vendettas, business deals and his ego and thirst for power). Again, I'm trying to list all of the possible suspects logically and am not accusing anyone here.
Who else? The other possibility is that the Hariri murder was a liquidation by a one of the competing mafias playing in the Syro-Lebanese arena. I won't go any further here too because it's highly unlikely.
Conclusion
Most Syrians I've met (inside and outside Syria) see the whole series of crimes as a plot that magnificently serves every single goal of Syria's enemies while extremely damaging to the Syrian regime internationally. Not to mention of course the disastrous effects of the aftermath of these crimes on the Syrian people's economy, security, dignity, their right in the Golan and their whole country's future. I'm not saying that the Syrian regime is not capable of carrying out such a crime, I'm simply saying that it is not that stupid or suicidal. You can't blame the Syrian people for questioning the motives for solely targeting their country as a suspect, the same way you can't blame many Lebanese for pointing their fingers at Syria 30 seconds after the crime took place (though I do blame the many Lebanese intellectuals and "free" media for their bias, lack of balance, investigative reporting and deep analysis). Take a look at what Mehlis said in his first report on that matter (the un-edited version where he mentioned Asef and Maher, as published by the Washington Post): "Certain Lebanese media had the unfortunate and constant tendency to spread rumors, nurture speculation, offer information as facts without prior checking and at times use materials obtained under dubious circumstances, from sources that had been briefed by the Commission, thereby creating distress and anxiety among the public at large and hindering the Commission’s work.." (Mehlis first report, page 3 paragraph 16 - unedited version). By the way, can anyone explain to me why such a statement was deleted from the final report? My view is that whoever pushed for its deletion does want the Lebanese media to continue on its route of emotionally-charged accusation against Syria that is "hindering the commission's work". This gives more credibility to my analysis about the murders of Samir Kassir, Jubran Twaini and targeting May Chidiac.. and may be more journalists to come as this tactic proves to be successful time after time in damning Syria.
When Syrians criticize Khaddam for what he is, this in no way imply that they blindly support his Syrian rivals and needless to say this does not mean that they don't want justice to be served. It simply means that we have all the reasons in the world to question his sudden change of heart and all the information he uttered. Unfortunately, when many Lebanese ask for justice, naming the Syrian regime as the one and only suspect (while granting absolute innocence to all the other beneficiaries), they are not doing "the truth" any justice and are not doing so from a well-thought and informed perspective. The accusation is mainly based on old (and mostly justified) grievances that are being exploited by the media and power thirsty politicians which does not help in thinking reasonably. Few Lebanese are also doing it from pure hatred (of sectarian or racist origin) towards Syria, that was there long before Hariri or even the Syrian troops going into Lebanon.
The basic line is whoever did it should be brought to justice, but Syria the country should not be damaged further in the process to the benefit of everyone but the Syrian and Lebanese people, especially when we are not 100 percent sure that someone from the Syrian regime actually did it. If someone in the Syrian regime did kill Hariri then justice SHOULD NOT BE SERVED ON THE EXPENSE OF 18 MILLION INNOCENT SYRIANS, nonetheless it should be served. Striking this balance is what should be sought by Syrians and Lebanese, not serving one goal on the expense of the other.
Idaf
147 Comments:
"The Syrian regime has all the capabilities needed to commit the crime, but it lacked a motive, will and even the guts to do it."
How stupid can you get?
What Ilaf wants us to think of as a piece of objective , thorough and deep analysis is nothing more than the wailling of a confused individual who cannot come to terms with the potential fact that members of an institution that is close to his heart might be found guilty of a heinous crime. His protestations and logic remind me of the proud mother whose son was marching in a military parade and she nodges the spectator next to her and says:" Have you noticed that the whole regiment is out of step except my wonderful son Imad".
In May 2004 I read an Arab-American newspaper with Michel Aoun. I had picked the newspaper in Patterson NJ.
I remember one statement which Aoun made, to paraphrase ".. I will be back in Lebanon in the Spring of 2005 and the Syrians will be out.." at that time I scoffed at such an overly confident statement. Lo and behold Hariri was assassinated, the Syrians left and Aoun was back.
What a prediction and with such precision!
"In May 2004 I read an Arab-American newspaper with Michel Aoun. I had picked the newspaper in Patterson NJ.
"
should be
In May 2004 I read in an Arab-American newspaper an interview with Michel Aoun. I had picked the newspaper in Patterson NJ.
Don't want to really comment on the Hariri case, it could be an act of GOD, Who knows who did it!!! Let the investigators do the work. Strange, everyone wants the truth to come out, they keep interfering, staling and compromising the investigation and keep on blaming Syria. Why not stop all this political interferances and backdoor deals by the Bush adminstration, Bedouin in Arabia, African of Egypt, French scums and so on and so forth. Stop all medling and business deals and accusations and blaming Syria, then let the investigators do the work and reach the right conclusion. Otherwise, this is looking just like a pressure tools on Syria to strip Syrians from many rights among other damaging "things" for Syria people interests.
As to Tlass, have a lot to say but "no serious public comment on Syriacomment". He did buy the first and only artwork I sold in Syria at the local art gallery
back in late 60's, he was not yet a Defense minister, he was more more into wife swapping with the Raslan's.
With all due respect to Mr. Shami "ibn aile" EJ and his overly optimistic and unfortunately outdated view (since he has not lived in Syria for decades), I cannot see how any objective analysis of future scenarios of political change in Syria would not include some level of violence. Look at Iraq and Lebanon (speaking of mercantile societies). Violence is the m.o. in the region, sadly. With a huge mass of unemployed Syrians, political flux will create a ready group of foot soldiers with nothing else to do but be pawns in some ugly sectarian struggle.
I would agree that most Syrians do not wish violence. But the fact that 99 out of 100 would prefer not to create violence is irrelevant. The real question is, will those 99 stand up to the 1 out of 100 that will wreak havoc? When some small group of fanatics goes marauding around closing shops in the Azizieh, are the "merchant elites" going to step in to stop them, or just keep sipping arak and exchanging French pleasantries at Nadi Halab?
I wish I could say with confidence that EJ's vision is right, but objectivity and pragmatism forces any analyst to plan for less desirable scenarios.
Mr. Aldendeshe seems to exhibit a very selective memory. He is absolutely right , and I am certain most if not all will agree with his call to await the final results of the investigations. What is wrong with his request/post is the fact that the only reason that this matter has dragged on for so long has been the Syrian regimes intransigence. They have repeatedly, and they are at it again, erected obstacles , refused to cooperate and continued using every possible opportunity to obstruct , delay and mislead.
I don't think that the request that we all should keep our powder dry is an unreasonable one but neither is the fact that we have the full right to expect full and unconditional cooperation regarding the investigative process. Let the games begin and let the chips fall where they may.
After 40 years of Baath 'socialist' rule, is there anything close to a mercantile society in Syria ?(except in some delusional Itafi brain of course)
The mere fact that Hariri's assassination was elevated to international levels indicates that it really touched a nerve or was ment to touch a nerve. The quickness with which the US accused Syria is highly suspect.
How many other countries have had a UN resolution against them for an accusation of assassinating an indidvidual?
Idaf does not know the history of the Baath Party. It was built on torture and assassination. Does Hama ring a bell?
How many Lebanese leaders were killed by the Syrian regime?
It is either you are blind or you are spreading Asad's propaganda.
Just ask yourself again, why the regime is not cooperating with the UN investigation? Why all the Intelligence files were burned?
Why there are conflicting testimonies?
Motive: control of Lebanon! The Syrians still think that Lebanon should be part of Syria (I heard almost the same thing from Saddam when he said that Kuwait is part of Iraq. Where is Saddam now?)
Dictators will never last forever! Murderers will face justice! And the Syrians will be liberated and will live in a country where they can choose (elect) their leaders and there will be checks and balances to prevent people from becoming billionars while the people are below poverty level!
It is disappointing to see someone of Dr. Landis’s intellect elevate a confused man like Idaf above. He is anything but concise. His thought process is convoluted. His conclusions are absurd. Clearly, Dr. Landis believes otherwise.
Ehsani2,
Mankind is a disappointing shit. Bush Administration is mostrousely disappointing. Allah-Mahatme Yehwe-whatever..Bozai..Quanza is the mother of all disappointment.
Thisnk about it. Which god do not disappoint you, which government do not disappoint you.
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That Joshua Landis wants to subject us to long, rambling, ridiculous opinions such as Idaf's is one thing. That Joshua Landis insists on "explaining" Syrian society to us is another. Please stop pretending you know anything about Syrian society, and stop writing things like "the Tlases have a firmer place in Damascene society than the Khaddams enjoy." What rubbish! Who do you know in Damascus? Obviously not the people who know.
If you have any idea of Mrs. Khaddam, or Oum Jamal's circle, you would know who is "number one" amongst the two - or compared to anyone. She has a position that Oum Firas never could dream of. Also, the Khaddam sons are married to an Atassi lady (Jihad) and a Kheirbeyk lady (Jamal) - two of the most well-known old families in Syria as well, certainly no lesser than Jabri. The Khaddam daughter was also married to a man from a respectable family but I can't remember the name right now, I'll post it when I do.
Tlas was never, ever respected by anyone in Syria, he is considered a clown, and neither was his wife. But Khaddam was respected (and feared) at one point, and his wife was without any doubt at the top of Damascus society. You never saw Oum Firas, just Oum Jamal. This is neither good or bad, but it's a fact.
Hashem
Hashem is absolutely correct. I was about to post very similar remarks before Hashem stole my thunder.
It makes no fucking defference. They are both Baathist and both are corrupt. They ceased my land and stole my livelyhood and that of my father in the name of Socialism and Arabism, all awhile they hoarded billions. I don't giva a damm what old families they or their sons married to, they owe me cash, or wait till the finish line. The more they got the better for the poor Syrians.
I felt Idaf’s writing was worth reading and I am glad Dr Josh posted it.
This is what open thinking and free speech and freedom of publication is all about.
Idaf is sincere and struggling to sort it. He is an intelligent and articulate person. He is not trying to manipulate or push an agenda. Like many people it seems he does not know what to believe and is fighting for direction.
This is what good discussion groups are for. (As long as they don’t degenerate into conspiracy theories).
Personally, I think Idaf is wrong to assume the operators of the Syrian regime would not do these things because it makes no sense for them. What makes sense to them is revenge, rule of fear, mafia-style violence, indifference and gloating at the suffering of others.
If these guys had even a minimal capacity for reasoned decision-making, strategic forward planning, compromise and commonsense, Syria and Lebanon could both be enviable successful nations, not the mess they have made.
Like most criminals they are very stupid, spending much more effort and risk doing the wrong thing and losing than doing the right thing and winning. All they can think is to kill and terrorise anyone who threatens their income and “power”.
By any measure everywhere you look (economic, social, legal, international relations etc) and see a wrong way to do it or a right way, Asad and co have always chosen the wrong way. Look at how incompetently they have handled even their own personnel problems, Kanaan and Khaddam.
And stop looking at Bashar’s worried and indignant face, look at Shawkat’s iron grip at the back of his neck.
The Mehlis investigation is what we have this century, a different stage of civilization from the Asad regime. See how mainstream US media is currently revisiting whether Castro could have been involved in the Kennedy assassination. It would have been useful to have Mehlis at work back then.
For those of you who are yet to see a picture of the infamous Rami Makhlouf, you can visit:
http://forum.shrc.org/english/bb/forum3/html/000998.html. Lots of juicy material besides the picture
Tlas and Khadam were window dressing fo Hafez Asad representing the sunni,both were corupt had no power, left to steal in return for their loyalties ,I can see from the writing how poor Syria,s politecal maturity is ,everybody talke about this family and that family, acheivers show their acheivments and are proud of them ,the people who acheive the least talk about their families,It is time for Syria to build an indivedual based sociaty were people are valued for what they do no were they come from or who are their family or what their religion is.the US can help Syria acheive that,i hope the US will find a peacfull way to do it.
Let us see, according to our Syrian Sherklock Holmes, if it is not the Syrian regime who killed PM Hariri, then it is either the Israelis or some ex-warlord in Lebanon.
Ghawar Holmes forgot that it could also be the Chinese who want to create instability in the region in order to distract the US from Taiwan, or it could even be the Klingons who are angry at the way they are depicted in Star Trek and had to create "creative" chaos in the Middle East so people forget Star Trek and remember Hariri.
Or it could be that the Syrian regime that was built on rivers of Syrian and Lebanese blood ordered the murder of PM Hariri and that it is trying to cover up its murderous tracks with idiotic fairytales that are spun over and over on this "I love Assad because he protects the Israeli occupation of the Golan as well as his father" blog.
Both 'Active Listener', and 'Norman' brought great points.
I think it is time for Syrians to breath a different political air, and for the "socialist mafia" to be cleansed from the Syrian map. During their "socialist" regime, people got poorer, except for the members of the Mafia who got extremely rich. Their wealth should be returned to Syria.
I see that this whole affair of the Hariri killing was a fight between the Mafia in divding the shares of projects in Syria and Lebanon. Neither one of them was clean, and to me the problem is not the Mehlis Investigation or the killing of one of one person. Hariri is not the issue, but cleaning both Lebanon and Syria from Mafia rules is.
Regarding ghassan's comment on the regime being "close to my heart". I'd say the following: I can claim that I'm trying to be objective in my analysis even when it is about a regime that imprisoned one of my family members for 12 years (as a political prisoner). Can you ghassan?
Unlike many of the people claiming to speak for the "poor and oppressed" Syrians, I do know first hand what a brutal regime is like, nonetheless I would not let my grievances be exploited by power-thirsty politicians, I refuse to be a victim manipulated by targeted media campaigns and insist on trying to make sense of what's happening on my own while looking at the whole picture not through the narrow lens of my own grievances.
I was expecting such criticism. I actually was counting on receiving them to expand my understanding of other people's views. It was the purpose of making them publicly. But regardless if you think that they were nonsense, "a conspiracy theory", an apology for tyranny or anything in between, you have to know that they do represent many Syrians' point of view on these events. Like it or not, not everybody in the world believe that Bashar ordered Hariri to be killed and this in no way indicates that these people support him or even like him. If you can't think outside the "you're either with us or against us" line of thought then I do feel sorry for you. It's not a black and white and it's not bi-polar. For many people it's just common sense.
AS for your questions Ghassan on "why the regime is not cooperating with the UN investigation? Why all the Intelligence files were burned?
Why there are conflicting testimonies?". I did answer these exact questions in my comment (have you read it in full?), but I'll repeat it anyway:
"WHY IS SYRIA THEN STALLING THE INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION IF IT HAS NOTHING TO HIDE? My view is that there are multiple reasons: There is the somewhat justified "preserving Syrian dignity" excuse (unfortunately it is something becoming obsolete by the day!). The second reason for "not cooperating" is the justified fears of infiltration and spying (does the word UNSCOM ring a bell?).
But the most important reason for the "slow" and "conflicting" Syrian cooperation would be because the Syrian regime does have a lot to hide, but it is not necessarily linked to the Hariri affaire. The Syrian regime (as almost every other political administration in the world) has a lot of "dirty laundry" that it does not want to be exposed. They are simply trying to hide stuff such as corruption, money laundering and other illegalities that were committed by the Syro-Lebanese mafias in Syria and Lebanon. Stuff that would definitely be exposed in any inquiry into Syrian Lebanese relations in the last 30 years. Any sane politician would want to hide such stuff from the public."
I hope you would be able to differentiate between someone trying to make sense of events and his own opinion on these events (interpretivism vs. positivism schools of thoughts?!). On that note, I've just read Josh's interview with the Dallas Morning News and I think it answers some questions on that matter. It is also a very good analysis of the people's view in Syria and the Middle East in general.
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Here is an article/interview with josh.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-landis_08edi.ART.State.Edition1.3ed3527.html
Alterion,
Very good.. thanks to your story we now have a more complete picture. As I mentioned earlier, Khaddam's thugs constitute just one of the mobs competing on the Syrian/Lebanese market. The Makhlouf's are the new kids on the block in Syria (they also have Lebanese business allies). As per your story, they do not have the ultimate power in Syria though, as Rami "got some heat" and settled for a Yacht instead of the 90% share!
This was not the case before 1998 when Khaddam's people (among other regime kids mafias) were enforcing a brutal siege on the Syrian economy (only Hariri was given an OK back then). This also does not change the fact that Al-Walid Bin Talal (Hariri's business rival in Lebanon) among other mega-investors, such as Emaar-5Bn$, Aref Group-4Bn$ and the latest 16 Bn$ deal currently being discussed in the parliament) were not allowed to enter the Syrian market until 2000 when Bashar came to power.
Saying that the economic investment atmosphere is improving in Syria does in any case mean that it is "good" and this in no way condones the existence of the Makhlouf's and other mafias in Syria and Lebanon.
IDAF:
I read both of your letters to Josh, the present one, and the one that is posted on the other thread, and I congratulate you for style, language, logic, and content, but above all for being a truly factual and deeply interested in exposing the roots of the present impass in Syria and Lebanon.
Bashar had an instant new chance to prove to his people his inocense, and to clear his past, mainly in imprisonning the honourable Syrians in what was called the Damascus Spring. He should have released them immediately, but he didn't. He also did prevent the Attassi forum from resuming, yesterday. That tells me that it was and is always Bashar who is the real force in Syria and the dictator as Khadam said. There is no excuse for him any more, and he should bear the responsibility of all the injustices and crimes his regime is committing.
It is time to get rid of this family, and I hope the Syrians will not use thugs like Khadam when this is accomplished.
Thank you
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What a shity logic and backward arguments this alterion is bringing. Enough please.
Regardless of all the disagreement with Idaf’s analysis, it cannot be disqualified automatically as some fellow posters have done above. One may not agree with his premises, but remember at the end of the day; politics is not an exact science, and we all know that only the winner write down history. All that is going on (even on this comment section) is nothing more than subjective interpretation of “reported events”. None of us was there to witness firsthand, it is all based on ones own judgment of things based on one’s experiences and views. Like his analysis or not is one thing, but he is correct is noting that to this day, nothing tangible (known to us as least) has linked Syria (or to be more precise the Syrian administration) to the Harriri and following killings.
My catch on Idaf, is that beyond Syria and Israel, all he did was list other potential candidates to the list of current crime perpetrators (Lebanese warlords and rival business mafias) but did not go into detail. Further analyzing these would have broadened the debate. Why does one not also look into the possibility of the US administration being behind all this? But, personally, I find a good deal of what Idaf said to be reflective of what many Syrians think and the questions they rightly raise.
I have a couple of notes regarding some the comments posted above.
Ghassan says: “The Syrians still think that Lebanon should be part of Syria (I heard almost the same thing from Saddam when he said that Kuwait is part of Iraq. Where is Saddam now?)”.
Sorry to disappoint you pal, but I still cannot recall anyone in Syria who ever mentioned this. (btw I am Syrian and living there and I interact with Syrians on a daily basis). Syrians do believe Lebanon is part of Greater Syria, yes, and this also includes Jordan and Palestine (or Israel if you prefer). But Greater Syria itself is only a romantic/nostalgic notion in the minds of the elderly generation. The younger ones could not careless about Lebanon being the 15th Mouhafaza or the independent country next door as long they get a chance to travel there visa free, study at good universities, and enjoy every other weekend a life style they don’t have back home. Believe me, with or without Syrian troops based in the country, this would have been the case. But I don’t think this is part of any long term plot to over take Lebanon, and certainly there is no basis for a comparison to Saddam/Kuwait. You should try interacting more with Syrians, you’ll see that they are not as evil as you are trying to suggest. True, they are governed by a people that who do not really represent what they majority resembles, but I would not want to believe either that the Lebanese political figures are a true mirror of the Lebanese people (kelna fil hawa sawa).
EJ mentioned some nice comments in his letter to Josh. As much as I would like to believe this as much as I’m afraid this comes from a different age. There is a greater retreat into religion nowadays.
However, the comforting thing, is that till now at least, the majority of Syria’s imams and religious leaders are not fanatics or hardheaded. There is no guarantee that this would remain the case during a transition period, but one can only hope that this would be factor in calming the spirits. A mercantile history would not do the job unfortunately.
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Of course, my true color shines always. I don't compromise with bull shit, mr. alterion.
To those dancing of happiness over the "coming out" of Khadam, may I remind you that there is nothing that this thug has said to criticise the previous 30 years of his regime between 1970-2000?
Instead he praised himself and praised that era of oppression in Syria and Lebanon that was unparralleled in the history of mankind. This Khadam is criticising the last 5 years as "a deviation" of the "great" direction of the Hafez Assad policies. Damn him and his previous protector, Hafez Assad.
Tlas has greater aristocratic pretensions....
The mythomaniac clown Tlass is a depraved drunkard without moral and his minister title was a farce..spending most of his time in Le meridien and Sheraton(forget his marriage with a jabri,most of low class baathists did the same).Tlass was implicated in syrian archaeological artefacts trading and in drugs traffic.
What are u trying to sell us Mr Landis ?
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Alterion:
I understand you completely. I understand all of those Sunni so called Oppositions, and you are laughable. I laugh when you pretend to be opposing the regime to establish "democracy" and justice in place of it. Now, you have been exposed exactly when Khadam "came out". For thugs like Khadam were always not conedemned because - they are Sunnis -, and were excused for being " figure heads" in an "Alawi" regime. His crimes, or that of people like him, the ones who inflated the Assad family's egoes , including Rifaat shit that you unjustly claim that I support, were Sunnis, and that include Khadam, and your fucking "respectable" Islamist/Islamic sheiks such as Keftaros and Boutis, and Habash, and so on. and soo on... all of those shitty personalities did not do what they did out of fear, or anything else, for silence would have been excused, but they got benefits, and they got perks out for doing what they did...and yet, no one of you fucking Sunnis blame them, and no one of your fucking "democracts" did not have in the background or in the foreground of their head the willingness to bring them aboard once the "alawi" elements of this regime is ousted!
Now, the minute Khadam lost his perks and became out of the regime, decalring himself "democrat", and in opposition to an Alawi regime, you and your ilks welcomed him with open arms, and started to defend his thefts, and his crimes against humanity, and against Syria and Syrians.
Who is the sectarian then? The ones who stayed poor because they refused to get the perks and associate themselves with the Assad from day one of his coming to power, or those "figure heads" Sunnis that you and your ilks welcomed and are always ready to welcome, forgiving them 35 years of crimes and thefts and prestige they enjoyed during those 35 years? You are nothing but a dirty sectarian hating the Assads only because this shitty family is Alawi. But I must tell you that though I despise the Assads tremdously, I say they are men in comparison to the semi-men like Khadam, Tlas, and so on of those who kneeled before the force of the Assads and inflated their egoes during 35 years of lies. We all know how Hafez Assad was lured by the Sunni merchants before 1970, and how these merchants bought him to betray his friends and pushed him up front so they can benefit materially during those 35 years while no one points a finger at them because - they are Sunnis - and the regime is "alawi". These Alawis in the regime, served as guardians and protectors of the real Sunni thieves such as Khadam and Shehabi, and many many others...including the Bouti, your great Sheik.
No sir, I am never interested in perks, but you are , and you, Sunnis kneel and kiss the dick of an Alawi officer for perks, and pretend that you are forced to do so, and when you have the chance to rebel, you come back and claim honour, and dignity, and being a "democrat".
JAM
I agree with JAM that the logic offered by Alterion regarding rank through marriage etc, is shitty.
Alterion, I suspect you are presenting this logic as a depiction of the common view in Syria rather than your own views.
Unfortunately for us this logic is still prevalent in our country, and even Josh seems to have had a mild case of infection where he seems very facinated by family links of this or that person, as if they are have geopolitical implications.
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I think what we have here is a microcosm of what will happen to us post-Assad.
Their leaders, you shit Aletrion?
It is your leaders. The Assads were your leaders, and never mine.
But cowards like you always hide behind the usual phrase : "Alawi" regime.
You shall always be a servant to an Alawi, whether the Assads or some one who will take Assads out. That is because you are coward. I and most Alawis never served the Assads, but you did, and Khadam did.
Idaf,
As you may recall, I did harshly criticize your write up earlier in this thread. My fellow commentators disagreed. My criticism may have sounded harsh indeed, and I regret that. I did read your piece again this morning, and I am sorry to tell you that I still do not agree neither with its premise nor with its conclusion. Before I elaborate, let me touch on the above discussion between you and one of my favorite commentators, Alterion.
You claim that Makhlouf is the new kid on the block and that they don’t have the ultimate power in Syria. You make it sound that Khaddam and Makhlouf are at the same level when it comes to corruption. Khaddam and others would sure like to. The fact is, however, that they did and do operate in a different league. Let me more blunt. The Makhlouf family is in charge of business for both the Makhlouf family AND the Assad family. Prior to Rami, it was Muhammed Makhlouf who was in charge. He did very well for the family (Assad-Makhlouf). His son Rami, however, took it to a different level. Makhlouf senior currently spends his Damascus days playing 4 hours of Golf. He is still the man to see though when you want an oil deal signed. Without Abu Rami’s commission you have no chance in hell of landing a single oil contract. Everything else, however, is now Rami’s to handle. With Basel out of the scene and Bashar busy being a President, this business genius is in charge of every single money making opportunity that the “family” might be interested in. While on the money trail, Tlas has made much more money than Khaddam thanks to all the army and logistics contracts that he was in charge of for close to 30 years. But make no mistake about it, no one has and no one will come close to what Makhlouf has been able to accomplish as the CEO of the family.
Idaf, you suggest that your views represent the majority Syrian youth, mothers and fathers. This is the one part I agree with you on. I have long argued that the Baath regime has done an outstanding job at brainwashing the minds of every Syrian citizen right from the moment of birth. I was part of the “youth” you refer to. I attended “Talaeea Al Baath”. I attended the summer military training camps immediately after school. I saluted the Baath flag every morning before I entered my classroom. I wore the stupid Para military ties and uniforms. My brain was genetically modified almost from birth. Syria was always “targeted” for its strong stand as the “beating heart of the Arab world”
Now that we discussed the youth, let us discuss their mothers and fathers. Throughout my life, we were taught not to say or utter anything political on the phone. Even today, I challenge a single one of us to call their parents at home and have an open conversation about politics. No wonder 50% of such conversations are spent asking about the weather at each end. When 20 million Syrian citizens are asked to express their opinion, Mr. Idaf, fully 99.99% of them find it an exercise of idiotic risk/reward to offer you anything but what you and Dr. Landis end up hearing from them. After all, they are not stupid. This brings me to my second point. The main premise of your write is that the Syrian regime could not be this stupid or suicidal to order the assassination of Hariri. You then use this logic to point the fingers at either Israel or some Lebanese warlords. Why Israel? According to you, because it has benefited the most and because they are most capable.
Sir, the very definition of incompetence is making decisions that turn out to benefit your enemies at your expense. Le t us make this easier to understand. Let us conduct an experiment where we hand a country like Syria to an insane, ignorant and totally inexperienced person who we randomly pick from the street. When a leader makes a “mistake”, he would by definition end up harming his nation and helping his enemies (otherwise it is not a mistake). If you keep our experimental President in power for 5-10 years, what should we all expect? Given that he was chosen precisely because he was disqualified for the job, logic would dictate that he would make more than average number of mistakes. In other words, he would end up helping his enemies at the expense of his country. In sum, when a leader is not qualified for the job, he will make the wrong decisions. When he makes those wrong decisions, his country will suffer and his enemies will benefit. Just because his enemies benefited by default does not mean that they made the decision in the first place. If it was Israel, why does the U.S. continue to push for the investigation to dig deeper? Why does the U.N. continue to extend the term of the investigations? I know what you think. Mehlis and the 100 other investigators work for the Mossad and all this is one big conspiracy to harm Syria and force a regime change.
The Israel CD plays in your head loud and clear. They try to kill Hamade as a try balloon. They “test” before they move to the “real” target. Shockingly, the Abu Addas tape proves this theory you claim. You then proceed to defend your thesis using typical Arab story telling that is long on intrigue but short on logic. You, however, imply that people who suspect Bashar and the regime lack “balance and deep analysis”. Months ago I asked why Bashar does not call the world’s media to Damascus or fly himself and his security suspects to any location the committee desires. Using Live Television, he ought to show how Israel committed his crime and offer minute-by-minute proof that his regime is innocent of the charge. Your main thesis is that the regime is not cooperating because of preserving dignity, fears of infiltration and spying and because the regime has a lot of dirty laundry that it does not want to be exposed. To suggest that the U.S., U.N. France or the committee does not know about this dirty laundry is absurd. If you, Alterion and I know about it, they know as much if not much more.
Idaf, I command you for attempting to defend the dignity of your country. But your write up cannot avoid the fact that you are asked to defend the indefensible. How can a regime be this stupid or ignorant? The simple answer is because it is. It has been on the premise that they are a regional power to reckon with. They thought of themselves as indispensable. They always had their way in Lebanon for 30 years and no one cared. Why would anyone question them now they must have wondered? To this regime, Lebanon and Syria can only have one boss. Hariri was slowly carving a bigger role for himself and this was a forbidden in Syria. Bashar’s ill-advised support of the Iraqi insurgency already made him a marked man in Washington. He simply could not read the changed atmosphere in Washington. This is a man who was shoved down the throats of 20 million people through a shameless Parliament. He has made one mistake after another culminating with assassinating Hariri. He knows it and the outside world knows it but his only hope is his 20 million subjects. Thus far, they have used the CD, the genetic programming of the Baath party, their fear of the known, their fear from speaking out and their pride to solidify ranks behind their embattled young President. My suspicion is that once the curtains come down on this regime, these very same people will breath a sigh of relief and tell you that they all knew all along that their regime was guilty.
What IDAF has shown in his two long letters to Josh was to explain how this whole struggle and fight is really nothing more than about monsy and financial gains and influence. Neither side, the Hariri-Khadam-other, and the Assads-Makhloufs is really instrested in the Lebanese or Syrian freedom. That is what I got from his two pieces and that is how I see things.
The Mafia that has dominated Syria and Lebanon for 35 years at least has split now. To present one side as the democratic side is crazy and unfair. This is all about how to dominate either market, and this Rami Makhlouf, the new kid in the block was more aggressive with an insatiable appetite to crush all others for his financial empire. This is the new factor that caused the split in this Mafia of Hariri-Assad-Makhlouf-others. The fact is this Mafia that is split affects other Mafias around the world, mainly Saudi and others made the killing of Hariri much more important than he killings of thousands upon thousands of Syrians, Palestinians, Iraqis, and Lebanese throught the 35 years of the Assads rules.
Hariri was a thug as well. Now we know that he was bribing Khadam by the millions and palaces he bought for him. The culture of corruption is inherent in the Syrian-Lebanese traditions, it seems, and Hafez Assad took full advantage of it to govern.
JAM
Ehsani,
Very well written and i think many of us can relate to most of what you said. I have not made up my mind about whether Syria(ns) killed Hariri and I’ll wait for the final report (but i feel they did it more and more each day). But my main point that i would like to bring up is that just because you are right about the brainwashing, hariri, corruption etc. does NOT mean that there is no strategic plan/conspiracy to isolate and weaken syria by the west. i mean hey, that’s what enemies are suppose to do right? The Neo-cons of washington have been after damascus a couple of years before the hariri assasination. actually as early as 2002 when Bush started throwing Syria's name when it comes to the war on terror/iraq. i am still at work now and i cant go into details with this but i am sure that you know what i am talking about. and my point is that you and idaf have valid points and just because you can find flaws in his argument does not make some of his line of reasoning invalid and vice-versa of course.
Idaf said :
If it's not the Syrians then who was it and why?
The main suspects are: First.. Israel.
That was exactly my first take; now I would add, with may be the complicity of some totally corrupt Syrians who would even endanger their country for financial gain.
Here is a new article by Ghassan Tweini. I love the Tweinis, and just look at how smart they are though his child was killed, I think by the Assads.
http://65.17.224.235/ElaphWeb/NewsPapers/2006/1/119079.htm
JAM, it was a zionist plot.
Vox:
Zionists are my cousins and I love them.
Hopefully they will destroy every thing that belongs to that shit Islamic so called nation.
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Hahahahhahahah
Alterion said this:
""JAM, oh I don't have any illusion about your ability at giving filth a new dimension""
"" You took my bait like the little Pavlovian dog that you are, and showed your true color which I was talking about. ""
I hope Rifaat will continue to screw you and screw your Sunni connection. Rifaat was the tool used by your master Hafez Assad with whom you had made your associations prior to 1970 to defeat the real struggle for syria's land liberation, and your love of money manifested by your merchants who brought the Assads in. You keep barking and accusing me of supporting your filth, Rifaat Assad, and that is because you have absolutely no logical defense for your cowardice persoanlity along with all of these Sunnis who have been shouting "Alawi Regime" while stealing the country in the name of those Alawi servants of you in the Army and Mukhabarat who were protecting your thefts and your corruptions. You and them will be sent to the trash bins of history.
Come back and accuse me of belonging to the filth that brought you in from total destruction before 1970, and that was Rifaat and his filthy brother, Hafez. You are nothing but a dirty sectarian who can not see but Sunnis interests in his life.
JAM
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The more I read you guys the more I see a massive bloodbath coming to Syria after the fall of the regime.
If B. Assad has any decency left he should start the transition by declining to run for re-election in 2007.
You just used the word "dog", and the word "dumbass", and you claim to be unfilthy, and "civilized"/
hahhahahahahahh
What is the difference between Rifaat and Khadam?
I support none. You are evidently barking at the wrong tree. However you support Khadam, so tell me who is sectarian and who is not?
I knew you from your arguments about so called Damascene shit families, and the time where such "logic" has gone for no return. What is the difference between The Makhloufs and the "notable" families you listed (Sunnis)? I will tell you what the difference is:
- It is time.
for the so called "notable" Sunni families were older, and that is all. The Truks were giving titles and land, ect... to certain persons in their colonies, and among them were the "lucky" servants who got those titles back then, and time has erased where their money had come from, and where their prestige originated. However, the wealth or richness of the Assads and Makhloufs is recent, and we can see where that came from. In time, they will be "notable" and "honourable", but remember, they are all garbage.
Your Sectarianism is always understood. I know where you come from. You are just trash like many of those who shout : "Alawi Regime" while serving it and enjoying the perks.
JAM
Ugarit said:
"The more I read you guys the more I see a massive bloodbath coming to Syria after the fall of the regime.
If B. Assad has any decency left he should start the transition by declining to run for re-election in 2007"
Be assured he never had it, and never will. He is the inheritor of what his father built. A system specifcally designed for the few.
And no, there will not be a blood bath after his departure for the ones who insist on this sectarian language are the primary Sunni benefeciaries of the regime, and the MBs, though the MBs have changed their tune, and sound more reasonable. I have confidence that the millions of the crushed Syrians will not take arms to fight for those filths and their interests. I am confident that most people are not sectarianists unlike our friend here, Alterion . The people like Alterion belong to the "notable" families Syrians wanted to finish off before Assad came to power. They will never have another chance.
JAM
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Alterion was accurately describing some of the family connections in Damascus. Early on there were some people who were asking who Khaddam’s daughter was married to. I think he was merely answering that question. Alterion has always had intelligent things to say. Gentlemen, I think this entertaining dialogue should now be put to rest.
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Ehsani2:
We have seen your message posted few times now. Why are you repeating it?
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The real dumbass said this:
""I expected nothing less from someone who probably made a living writing reports about his friends. Or maybe he just did it to screw those snobbish""
How do you know mr. dumbass that I have written anything, any report? Where is your fucking proof? In your language one can see how a dirty sectarianist you are, and how stereotyping Alawis is one of your "best" arguments, and traits.
Syrians are not the few you are defending. Syrians will never allow such going back to the past. We look forward, and forward we shall march.
People who like you who use the above stereotyping language are bound to be left for the trash bins of history as I said earlier.
This language is the best you can come up with, and you have no idea who I am and how many in my family your Assad, your hero you attach to me destroyed, but you are a son of a bitch for sure, and no one feels inferior to your fucking pur Turkish blood. Your Othman empire has gone by, and you were only serrvants to the Othmans no more. Servants to the Turks, and for such a retarded Empire, no honour shall be bestowed upon you, fucking dumbass.
JAM
EHSANI2:
Not sure if I missed, but could you write up something about your trip to the homeland? I am sure it will be interesting to read.
TIA
You all fucked up in the brain and other places. How this crap you are waisting your energy and time on is going to lead us all out of the misery?
How about you focus on teh enemy, the Baathists and those that support them in and out of the country. Most importantly, you are so pasionate about bringing freedom and democracy to Syria, why not focus on the plan and work toward it rather than infighting. Why not all of ya become supporter of SSPRS or some other group of your choosing and concentrate your effort on a plan, mot Alawites-Sunni-Christian and other secterianism that destroyed Lebanon and used very well by the Assad's to this very hour.
Yabroud,
My apologies. Silly computer mishap caused it.
Alterion,
I will do so. I may do so soon
SRP:
Let's look at the argument, especially Alterion's repeated comment about accusing me of "writing reports", etc... and see wheere the garbage and the sick mentaqlity is inhabitting:
The Assads killed and imprisonned many many Alawis, and yet, I read in many places that these Alawis were "agents" of the regime, and even their deaths did not mean a thing to such people, for they remained in their eyes hidden agents, writing reports even from inside prisons, or giving up their lives when they were assassinated by the Assads for the hidden agenda of the Alawis. While repeating such accusations that they are proud of saying, they welcome the biggest of the Sunni thugs when he just criticised Bashar Assad, and did not even mention a word about the 30 previous regime. Right way, he is believed while enjoying the palace that he is speaking from, and which would have never belonged to him had he not been a member of the regime. Yet, because he is a Sunni, he is forgiven, and even excused, and people like Aref dalilah are considered as "hidden spies" in their cells writing reports about other prisoners and so on..
I say: Fuck Muslims eveyr where.
Fuck Islam and the Othman Empire which they praise all of the time. Turley, and despite its liberation by Ataturk from Islam and Islamist rules is still one of the most reatrded and backward countries the world over, even after many decades of its secularisation.
Fuck you Muslims.
JAM
Just wanted to wish you all a Happy Eid. May this joyous occasion bring warmth, peace, and happieness to your homes, hearts, minds, and to our beloved homeland, Syria.
"Fuck you Muslims"
One question JAM...
Are you muslim? yes or no...
Away from the ugly sectarian noise..
KarimHalab said: "I would not want to believe either that the Lebanese political figures are a true mirror of the Lebanese people"
... Amen.
Ehsani asked "If it was Israel, why does the U.S. continue to push for the investigation to dig deeper? Why does the U.N. continue to extend the term of the investigations?"
To make it short, because they are enjoying (and of course it is in their interests) having a weak regime constantly under pressure in Damascus while they are in trouble in the Iraq. If I was in Cheney's or Bolton's shoes I'd keep the pressure on Assad as it causes Hizballah to become weaker, it adds pressure to Iran's and gives more credibility to the now-less-convincing Iraqi borders accusation. I'd also like to answer your question with another question.. Can you explain why did the US suddenly stop pushing Syria as harsh as it did starting mid November? Accusations from February till mid November were so intense that I can't remember 3 days passing without a harsh and direct accusation from Bush, Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld or Bolton among others. Suddenly, it eased and came almost to sudden stop. This pushed the anti-Syria Lebanese politicians to freak-out and shout foul claiming that there is an American-Syrian deal being cooked. While it is a remote possibility, I think that the actual reason was that the Americans objectively reanalyzed the events and data in hand according to the not-so-convincing Mehlis reports (specially after the Hassam affaire!). I think that this (among other domestic and regional reasons) made the Americans rethink the other possibilities, maybe even they received some kind of intelligence indicating that it was not actually the Syrians! Who knows!
To answer KarimHalab valid point, I personally don't think that the US administration had a hand in killing Hariri. Not because they are not capable, but because -similar to the Syrian regime- they lacked the strong motive and will. Furthermore, if they would want such a crime to be carried out then they have lots of agent in the region to do the dirty work for them. Add to that the extremely weird low tone of criticism towards Syria by the forces that were the most outspoken critics of Syria for years (namely Jaja's and Aoun)! Does anyone else find this weird too given there historic deep tensions with Syria? It might be political safety net, but who knows.
No Ehsani.. I don't think that "Mehlis and the 100 other investigators work for the Mossad" or that it is a conspiracy for regime change. I personally think that there are many players working interchangeably, everyone with his own agenda: You have the Lebanese politicians that are using it to boost their popular base (regardless of what they actually believe). There is also Syrian politicians such as Khaddam and Rifaat that are trying to capitalize on Assad problems. There is the Israelis that are trying to do the same mainly to dismantle Hizballah and eliminate the Palestinian movements linked to Damascus and of course there's the Americans for reasons mentioned above. I personally pity Mehlis, I think that the poor guy is trying to do what he can to come up with the truth, but he is being manipulated by a flux of true and fake evidence to implicate Syria by all the parties that gain to benefit from the current situation and of course the Syrian regime is not helping itself. Some of these parties just want a week Syrian regime that would give up Hizballa, the Palestinian movements, parts of the Golan as well as further weaken Iran's position, while others are aiming for the head of the regime such as Khaddam, Rifaat and some Lebanese parties for egotistic, financial or domestic political reasons.
It's not the US, UN, France that the regime wants to hide the "dirty laundry" from. It's the public.. the Syrian and Lebanese public. It would be extremely damaging to the regime (as well as to many Lebanese politicians) if the Syrian and Lebanese people read the inhumane mafia-like tactics that accompanied business deals and political games in Lebanon and Syria.
And again Ehsani you misunderstood, I did not "imply that people who suspect Bashar and the regime lack balance and deep analysis". I simply said that about the Lebanese media and I know a thing or two about media ethics and fairness. If Mehlis said that it is hindering his investigation then who am I to argue otherwise?! Lets compare the Lebanese media after the Hariri crime and the British media after the London bombings last July. To be fair the London bombings were even more brutal and inhumane (although all killings are equally barbaric), nonetheless, the media in the UK explored every single possibility with deep analysis and a well-balanced coverage that did not fall into incitement and "constant tendency to spread rumors, nurture speculation, offer information as facts without prior checking and at times use materials obtained under dubious circumstances", to quote Mehlis. Despite the obvious culprits back then, the British media even explored the possibility that it might be a revenge for winning the Olympics bid among all other possibilities.. this is called deep analysis!
Unlike you Ehsani, I never attended “Talaeea Al Baath”. I have never saluted the Baath flag. You can say that I was extremely lucky in Syria, but I strongly argue that my brain was never genetically modified (and hopefully will never be). If I may, I'd suggest that the brainwashing you suffered had a counter effect (as with many may Syrians) on your ability to see things from a neutral perspective. I'm trying to analyze facts, data or logical sequence of events to come up with an understanding of what happened. What you, most of the Arabic media and many "experts" are trying to do is simply using the portrait drawn by just grievances, the media and political campaigns and the "reputation crisis" of the Syrian regime to point a finger at the single suspect that would serve some agendas. This suspect might well be guilty, but the keyword here is "might". Given the facts that I listed in my letter to Josh, I'll stick with innocent until proven guilty legal statement until further data becomes available.
Ehsani, I'm not trying to "defend the dignity of my country" and definitely not the regime. As I mentioned earlier I'm just trying to make sense of what's happening and to be as objective as possible. I assure you that I was not "asked" to defend anyone and am troubled by the fact that you believe so. Thank you for your arguments and criticism, but I am still not convinced that this regime is the guilty just because the media and an army of politicians and opportunistics are claiming so. If that makes me a traitor, a tyranny appologist or whatever, then so be it, as namecalling is not a good enough reason for me to be convinced with illogical accustaions that would only harm my country. As for your claims about the Makhloufs, I will in no way defend them and I have already explained my view earlier.
Finally, I'm about to make a statement that might make you jump furiously from your seat, just to make my point. So please take a deep breath before reading the following statement:
I argue that in this current moment, if the UN came and sponsored a free and extremely transparent presidency referendum in Syria, Bashar would win with a comfortable majority of Syrian votes (I will not be one of them by the way). The reason would not be because Syrians are "brainwashed", but because (as Josh argued several times) they do believe that considering everything, Bashar is better than all other alternatives at this moment as a "damage control" method for Syria's economy, security, rights, dignity and future. It would also be because of fear of a gap that the transition of power would bring at this certain point of time. The gap that would definitely be filled by external powers (read Iraq and Lebanon) all with agendas against the interests of the Syrian people. By this argument I'm simply saying that despite all the brainwashing and brutal excesses of the regime for 40 years, I'm arguing that the collective will of the Syrian people is smart enough to take the painful decision of giving the man another chance for the sole purpose of serving the higher interest of the country. If there was no offensive Israel nearby, a peaceful and America administration and no parties itching to jump in at this moment of time, results would have surely been different. I agree with Josh's analysis that, while it is a sad truth.. people are choosing the lesser evil and are trying to make the best out of it. Would Bashar seize this moment and make peace with the Syrians? this remains to be seen. Again, the point here is that I hope you would be able to differentiate between someone trying to make sense of events and his own opinion on these events.
JAM said:
"Be assured he never had it [election], and never will. He is the inheritor of what his father built. A system specifcally designed for the few."
I'm aware of that, but he should not run in the election of 2007 which is "supposed" to be "free" and multi-party.
I'm going to miss his wife, however. :-)
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I am not shy about using bad 4 letters words because I think the worst 4 letter word is much cleaner than the secterian language used here and by Bashar.
JAM, do not control your anger and temper when it comes to Syria's misiry and Baathist brutality and devestations. But please contol your anger and temper when it come into secterianism. This is what the enmy of the peopel and Syrian Nation want to do. Destroy us secteriannaly, that is waht they did in Lebanon in the 80's and defeated those beasts. Now they again trying it not just in Lebanon, but Iraq, Syria and even Egypt.
Don't fall for the scam. refrain from responding and participating in inticing posts.
I agree with JAM, and this has been discussed over and over again on this blog for more than a year now. That is Alwaites suffered just as much on the hand of the Baathists as any other Syrians. True the majority of those supporting and have supported the Assad's were Alawites. But that is just because they are represented in concentration, the fact is there are much more Sunni supported teh Assads than Alawites, if you to count heads.
This discussion is really a waste of time.
The question is, WHAT IS NEXT. Where do we go from here? American washed hands from the Middle East and preparing to leave. They got the Iraqi oil contract and ll they care about now is cut the losses. They screwd the European and delt with Assads behind thier back. So they are shelling out back now on thier own. Or they are in cahoute with the American who handed Syria's file to them, They just wants Assd to keep the peace in Iraq.
Assad, is not going to change, that is a fact. We see no evidebces of that as of yet. When the pressure is off, teh Baathists will just go back to teh old ways and counted as victory.
What is your plan?
Have you got any.
Can you raise 5 Millions Dollar from somebody, god maybe, or he is only interested in slaughtering more sheeps right now, not the people of Syria.
Pray for that god that came down and told Ibrahim to slughter his son as prrove of obedience. What a Jewish crap. I do not wish anyone happy slaughter day. If I had my way in Syria I will ban this Adha holiday and replaced it instead of a slaughter and death by life and beauty day NEROUZ sound good to me.
Lunch time. Time to play with life my 5 year old.
Go slaughter sheeps or god will be angry at you and slaughter your children like he did in Egypt.
The Nouvel Observateur has published the full transcript of the interview: Khaddam :"Bachar va tomber".
He says that the meeting in which the threats were made took place two months before the extension of Lahoud's term, but the only meeting I could find was on May 27, 2004.
I don't understand why Khaddam said in the al-Arabiya interview that "it never occurred to me that he (Hariri) would be murdered by Syria", while he now claims that Asad told him: "je vais l’anéantir".
Idaf, there is one problem with your analysis: Gebran Tueni has been described as "one of Israel's best allies in Lebanon". So why would Israel kill him?
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Idaf,
Thank you for the articulate and more importantly the tone of your response.
I had just returned from a trip to Syria, which I have the pleasure to visit rather frequently. Not that you implied it, but I have zero grievances against this regime. For the record, none of my family members suffered from this regime in the slightest. You thought that your last statement would shock me. The truth is that it did not. Given my own interaction with Syrians at home, they may indeed do what you suggested. Dr. Landis has indeed touched on this issue on numerous occasions. Set below is my answer:
By destroying every possible civil or political organization, the regime has made it nearly impossible to offer Syrians an alternative to its rule. Give me draconian emergency laws, super efficient security services, one party rule, bans against group gatherings, lack of free press, control of every single media outlet in the land, unlimited funds to dole out to supporters and demonstrators, support from the business families who are enjoying limited competition for the products and services they sell and I could win too. This is simply not a fair contest. Syria currently suffers from circular logic. The more iron fisted its regime is, the less the chances are that any credible opposition would dream of taking on the rulers. The less and the weaker the opposition is, the more self-fulfilling prophecy it all becomes. Using this logic, Syrians should never have a non-Assad rule them. The arguments you have presented were presented during Hafez’s rule. It is now used during Bashar’s rule and I submit to you that it will also be used during Hafez Junior’s rule.
Finally on the investigation, I will have to agree with you that a host of factions and players would love to witness the demise of the Syrian regime. I also agree with regards to the way the media has covered the story. As to the way the Americans have recently acted, there is no question that they fear the unknown. Whether their recent subdued stance is a sign of a deal in the works is too early to tell. I have my own suspicions about who was responsible for the Hariri assassination. What you are effectively telling me is to hold on and not jump to judgment till the case is closed. Fair enough. I shall abide by this logical plea till the case is legally concluded.
I very much enjoyed the exchange.
Muslims are now stonning the "devil" in fucking Makah.
What an idiotic religion it is!
Every year, the wolves march to Makah to slaughter lambs in order to cleanse the sins and crimes they had committed throughout their lives, and be "forgiven" by Allah, only to go back and repeat what they were doing of lies, thefts, killings, and cheating.
Muslims such as Alterion obey noo one else but the devil himself. This religion is truly satanic.
JAM
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Ehsani2, I am facing the same problem with this site. Some one must fix it.
Alterion,
I love the Stockholm Syndrome reference.
Talibans burn an elementary school in Afghanistan. Few days ago, they chopped the head of an elementary school teacher because he was teaching little girls. This is your fucking Islam, and your "notable" fucking roots, and I will never forget Baslan.
قندهار (افغانستان): أضرم عناصر من طالبان النار في مدرسة ابتدائية في جنوب أفغانستان في اطار سلسلة من الهجمات التي تشنها هذه الحركة ضد المؤسسات التعليمية في هذا البلد المضطرب.
واقتحم اكثر من ستة اشخاص مدرسة زيراي الابتدائية في قندهار في وقت متاخر من امس الاحد واضرموا النار في غرف الصف والوثائق المدرسية، طبقا لما صرح نائب مدير التعليم في المقاطعة حياة الله رفيقي لوكالة فرانس برس. والقى رفيقي بمسؤولية الهجمات على "اعداء افغانستان واعداء التقدم والتعليم في بلدنا" في اشارة الى فلول طالبان الذين يعارضون تعليم البنات.
وكان مهاجمون اضرموا النار امس الاحد في مدرسة ابتدائية في مدينة قندهار المعقل السابق لطالبان، بعد احتجاز ثلاثة من عمال النظافة داخلها. وقام السكان المحليون بانقاذ العمال من السنة اللهب.
وفشلت مجموعة اخرى من المسلحين في اضرام النار ليلة السبت في مدرسة قريبة بعد ان اجبرهم السكان على الفرار.وقد اطاحت قوات التحالف التي تقودها الولايات المتحدة بنظام طالبان في اواخر 2001. وكان النظام الاسلامي المتشدد يحظر تعليم الفتيات خلال فترة حكمه للبلاد من عام 1996 وحتى 2001.
There is no so called "stockholm" syndrom in Syria.
Plainly, the Sunni Big thieves support this regime as they are stealing Syria and the people of Syria in the name of Alawi Regime. There is no finger pointing at them while the fingers point at the Alawi big Thieves as these Alawis are also happy to be stealing and are drunk in their situation which is blinding them to the crimes they are committing against Alawis and against Syrians in general. Sunni Thieves are the "notables" among the Sunni population and they are supporting this regime for this opportunity they have is unique, and blameless as they are hiding well and shifting the blame to the poor segment of the Alawis. Assad chopped off the Alawi leadership and became the only Master in the field. So did those Sunnis to their population. There is an equation at work, and it has nothing to do with the so called "Stockholm" syndrom. What an excuse!
JAM
EHSANI2, thanks. BTW, I have read and re-read your last remarks to Idaf, and to be honest with you I am having a problem understanding something in it. Could you elaborate? You said: "but I have zero grievances against this regime" But the latter part of your post you're listing a rather very long list of well articulated grievances. Am I missing something?
Frankly Jam, you make a lot of sense.
Dear Joseph Ali Mohammed.I do not think that you are a Muslim.But your way of articulation reveals that you are not well-educated.
First of all you insult a religion of 1.2 billion people.Do you know that crimes has nothing to do with religion but with the psyche of the people.Give me a verse in the Quran or hadith that justifies the killing of innocent people.
People who has lost everything in life have nothing to loose.
Compare e.g. people living in the Bronx with people living in other normal cities.
I was trying to explain that I have not personally suffered from the regime. Perhaps a poor choice of words when I said I have no grievances with the regime. I had meant to convey no personal agendas.
Dear Al-Akid:
Here is one article that lists numerous verses as you asked. I have many more.
http://www.elaph.com/elaphweb/ElaphWeb/ElaphWriter/2005/7/76759.htm?KeyWords=njErGTWocRjPoORbCVDq2A==
If you wish me to print it here, let me know
Thanks
JAM
1.2 Billion people as Al-akid said have Islam as their religion. Fine, where do these people, from Indonesia to Marocco rank among the civilised nations?
If they only keep their surroundings clean, and refrain from throwing their garbage at their neighbours doors, that would be a step forward.
JAM
Here is one among many verses from the Quran where Allah tells his obedient men to "screw as many women as you wish, one, two, three, or four, or whoever you posses as slaves". This is repeated in many many verses. There is not one single verse that tells the S;aves what rights they have anywhere in the Quran, but the obedient men are asked to do what they wish to the slaves in many many verses.
"a religion of 1.2 billion people."
A digression: did you notice how al qaida/wahabbi/salafists always include the Shias when they count the Muslims, even though they hate them and blow the shit out of them? I found that rather amusing.
JAM:
BTW, many horrible things are also in the Bible and not only in the Quran.
JAM,
What do you think of christianity?
What is the next step, what is teh next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step.
What is the next step, what is teh next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step.
What is the next step, what is teh next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step.What is the next step, what is teh next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step.
What is the next step, what is teh next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step.
What is the next step, what is teh next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step, what is the next step.
JAM
Boy, you're not making many friends today. Posting shit about Islam and Muslims. As I understand it, you're an Alawi by birth, no?
Imam Ali said: "Two men are doomed by me: one who loved me so, and one who loathed me so."
You should note that Muslims today do not represent Islam as it should be: we have divided ourselves into fighting factions. Each sect calling fot the blood of the other. We do not help each other succeed, but we use every trick in the book to steal and cheat. We do not think or observe the world with a scientific rigor, as the Quran asks, but we believe in magic, fairy tales, the Zodiac, and Arab Unity.
We are racist, sectarian, cowardly, canniving, thieving, violent, emotional, irrational, and selfish. How is that representative of Islam?
No wonder we are relegated to the trash bin of civilization. Until we stand up, remove the dust from our souls, and start acting in an honest and objective manner, we are not worth anything to the world.
Take an example, this website: Syriacomment.com. How come it takes a person like Dr. Landis (with all due respect), who's not Syrian, can barely speak Arabic, let alone read it, how come it took an American to create an important forum about Syria? where are the 20 million Syrians, what the hell are they doing? I know there are a few blogs here and there, but none of them is objective or shows both sides of the issue.
Islam is not the problem, it's the Muslims who are too stupid to handle its noble message and lifestyle.
Idaf,
A follow up, if I may, on your suggestion that Bashar would comfortably win a free and extremely transparent Presidency “referendum”. The key word that you chose of course is referendum rather than election. The literal definition of a referendum is as follows:
“The practice or principle (in early use chiefly associated with the Swiss constitution) of submitting a question at issue to the whole body of voters”. In the case of Syria, the question to its body of voters is “Do you approve Bashar as President or not?” According to you, he would win by a comfortable majority. Let me pose this question to you. Let us assume that we move to a more conventional “election”. How do you think Bashar would do then if he gave his citizens one year to prepare their agendas and platform before they run against him under the same U.N. sponsorship that you had suggested?
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Ehsani2: I will speak about Christianity later. In my many posts at the begining of my particpation here, and possibly under the name Mohammed, I said every thing I needed to say about the su bject. Let me just say: I love Jesus Christ.
In response to DamasceneBlood, I agree with you, but here, what doo you say about the filthy Muslims who, in their many internet interventions throughout this beautiful American tool that they use, speaking about the Syrian Alawis who oppose the regime as "spies", or not believale, and even accuse the assassinated Alawis to have died for the cause of the Alawi Elders ( most resecent example what Elaph.com said about the assassination/suicide of Ghazi Kanaan, same was said about Mohammed Omran killed by Hafez Assad, and about Alawi Prisonners as spying on other prisonners such as what they said about Dr. Aref Dalilah).
How about this fucking Alterion, a Muslim who is proud to throw accusations against me that I used to write reports about my friends, and he does not even know who I am. What kind of morality has his Islam taught him? Is he deserving any respect, or should I spit in his face as he truly deserves, and tell him that his Islam is nothing but true dirt, and if such is their Islam, I am proud to be Alawi/ non Muslim as they say. Who in hell would be proud to be a Muslim when Muslims exhibit this kind of low morality?
As I said earlier, when Muslims refrain from throwing garbage at their neighbours' doors, that would be a start to gain respect.
JAM
t_desco asked "there is one problem with your analysis: Gebran Tueni has been described as "one of Israel's best allies in Lebanon". So why would Israel kill him?"
Good question. My answer: Why not? If this would cause the most damage possible to Syria just before the SC resolution, as Jubran was definitely the most popular anti-Syrian critic in Lebanon and one of the few that had a popular base since early nineties.
It worked like a charm by the way, in emotionally charging the media against Syria once again after the tone went a bit to a semi-reasonable level. Did anyone see how Samir Jaja' and his Lebanese Forces supporters chanted on live TV "kess ekhtek souria" repeatedly while they were carrying his coffin? The Future TV announcer to my shock said: "listen to the natural spontaneous human emotional reaction" (I saw it on the Future and LBC). What more could you ask for if you want to boost the anti-Syrian sentiment and raise the incitement level? The ultimate political benefits that the perpetrators gained back then were: an extremely hard time for Syria in the Security Council after a moderate second Mehlis report and a boost for the anti-Syria politicians to up their ante and ask for an "international court" as a minimum request in their political fights PLUS the devastating political effects on Hizballa and the Palestinians that we are still witnessing now.
By the way, Jubran was the most annoying anti-Syrian critic for the regime since 10 years. Why did not the regime kill or imprison him earlier when it had a chance when no international eyes were on it? The timing fits well in my theory.. unfortunately!
If Syria could be easily accused with killing its allies (such as el-Murr and Hawi not to mention Karami and Junblat senior), then why claim that Israel would not do the same if the gains would be so high? The Syrian regime is very brutal, but only an idiot (or a Likudnik) would claim that it is more brutal than Israel!!! Moreover, with Jaja' out of the prison do you really believe that Israel need anymore allies? (though I don't think that Jubran was an ally for Israel, despite his alliance with the Lebanese Forces).
Alterion,
The Stockholm syndrome does not describe what I said. The Syrians are not currently supporting the regime because they fear Bashar's punishment! They are doing so to protect higher Syrian interests from external "hostage takers" by CHOOSING out of "FREE WILL" to support the regime at this moment. If there were no eminent external threats (or risks) then the people might choose something else.
Ehsani,
I used the word referendum on purpose as the Syrian constitution does not allow direct election of a president. According to the Syrian constitution, the parliament chooses a president and asks the people to vote with a yes or no in a referendum. Your question is not valid as it requires getting a more representative parliament first where a debate would go on to chose a president (or otherwise -god forbid- change the constitution!). Even if we have that now I'd argue that Bashar would have gotten a comfortable majority as the "representative" parliament's choice at this moment. It has to be said though that parliaments only work with alliances and deals in chosing a president.. so who knows really!
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Idaf is adding a lot to this forum. It's a pleasure to see his mind at work and read such well written stuff. I hope he stays.
It's been a stimulating and useful debate here today, sectarian scuffles and all. Quite a lot of substance delivered, thanks Alterion, Ghassan, JAM, ehsani2 and others. If only such exchanges could be on Syrian TV!
The Dallas newspaper interview with Dr Josh (linked in Idaf's post above) is also worthwhile reading.
Come on Damasceneblood, don't be like that about Syrians. Dr Josh's personal style and way of running this forum make it a success - it would be hard to find even in America. Syrians are lucky to have someone like this on their team, and I'm sure he hopes he's bringing on others here who will one day contribute to discussions like this openly inside Syria. (BTW he has a lot personally invested in Syria with his family and I suspect he's better at reading Arabic than quite a few people who've never left the Middle East).
Idaf,
I am well aware of the constitution which I had written about extensively in the past. I asked a heoratical question. But never mind.
You had earlier asked for “proof” that the regime committed the murder. May I ask what metrics you are using to ascertain the proof side of it? In other words, what do you need to hear from the commission in the coming weeks and months to convince you that Bashar had ordered the assassination?
JAM, you imbecile, I will let you go with a couple of words befitting your stature. The only thing you can spit on is your screen you dumbass. Your quite the brave souls when you're behind your screens. Wake up you expired moron, YOU ARE NOT IN SYRIA AND YOU ARE NOT IN A MUKHABARAT BRANCH. You cannot bully us and this is just driving you mad.
Idaf describes late Kamal Junblat as an ally of the savage Hafez Assad. I wonder how he can deny the past and facts and pretends to know the history of what happened between Junblat and Assad. What a joke!
The evidence is overwhelming that a regime that has killed most famous persoanlities throughout its existence, whether they were Lebanese, Syrians, or Palestinians thoughgt that killing one more, Hariri in this instance was going to pass exactly as the previous ones, and never in its wildest imaginations did it predict such world reaction.
Syrians hate Bashar Assad as much as they hated his father, but will they tell Josh, or you about their hatred? I know that the people are much more careful then to speak up and display themselves to danger. One should say the same about the North Koreans and their love for their dictator.
The dirty Sunni Muslim, Alterion speoke again.
Let your words show the world what a sick prejudice mentality you have! You think you belong to the chosen people? The people who Allah chose as your Quran says?
The hell with you and your people. You represent Evil in all of its dimensions. Islam = Evil, atleast the Islam you represent.
....
Some comments and even main page articles on this site never cease to amaze me. I have yet to see a people in denial equivalent to that expressed by the syrians and subtly, by Mr Landis himself. While it is true that we do not have yet a tried and true assassin of Mr Hariri, his companions and all those who followed since, it boggles my mind to see the degree of gullibility and baathist fervor syrian "intellectuals" and ordinary citizens are capable of. Folks, wake up! You have been run by a classic mafia gang for the last half a century. Your "leaders" have preyed on Lebanon for the last 30 years, using it as their own personal piggie bank , torturing killing and incarcerating its citizens and we have yet to hear a single syrian voice admitting the obvious facts and expressing an iota of regret or a simple acknowledgment of the situation. SUrely Lebanon has its corrupt administrators and its warlords, carefully nurtured by the syrian regime.. But to deny any and all responsibility and to buy into the selective anthology of syrian achievements as narrated by the recently disgruntled mafioso khaddam is beyond belief. Your regime, to this day, does not acknowledge the presence of illegally detained, untried and falsely accused lebanese citizens in its dungeons. These people are not "errors" or collateral damage.. Their numbers are in the hundreds if not thousands.. Their families have laid eyes on them after bribing one of your own sons "serving" in the syrian army .. And yet here we are listening to syria-utopia news on this site day in and day out, accusing everybody and their uncle of all the "misdeeds" that befell Lebanon, and none once spitting in the face of their corrupt regime and calling irrevocably for its demise, not for the sake of the Lebanese but for the sake of Syria itself. The Lebanese problem is in the open because the syrians were kicked out and we can now talk about it.. But the problems in Syria are innumerable and buying into nationalistic fever should not blur your vision. You are being led by a criminal regime born of a cruel and more criminal predecessor. Instead of RISING to free yourself of this burden, you sheepishly comply and prepare to submit to another half a century of thirld worldism and certified terror statehood. Your lackadaisical love of the status quo may simply transfer you from a moronic assad dynasty to a more machiavellic khaddam rule.. Will you only ask khaddam why the late spurt of consciousness? As one of our great writers once said, and I paraphrase: You need to deserve your freedom before you can earn it!
Yeah, we gathered that much that you're capable of spewing scat even from your filthy mouth. You have made your point of being the king of filth pretty clear, 20 posts laters. Anything else you want to add o' brave one? GET OVER YOUR FREAKIN INFERIORITY COMPLEX ALREADY. You sound like a broken record, fuck this and fuck that. Do you feel like a man when you say that? Well, this is the closest you'll ever get feeling like one. Because at the end you're the average jaban who has always hidden behind your master, Rif3at, and his cronies. It is driving you nuts that you can no longer write reports about posters here, ha. Oh well, old habits die hard.
You dirty Sunni, Rifaat is your man, and he was your master. Remember who brough Hafez Assad and Rifaat to power. Remember how you both conspired against the regime that preceded it. You thought that by getting rid of the Alawi Jedid, it would be so easy to get rid of Hafez Assad. Your sectarian mind is so narrow, and you deserve nothing less than spitting in your face for you are a coward, and a thief like those Sunnis Assad has ridden for that long. One one Sunni is finished, there is an abudance of other Sunnis competing to be ridden the Assad, and you have no shame attaching Rifaat dirt to others?
Anyway, YM siad this, and it is true in all cases:
" You need to deserve your freedom before you can earn it!
"
And cowards hating all Alawis and not believing that an Alawi can beagainst the Assad regime truly is sunk in the deepest ignorance and deserves only to be despised. Your ilks are many, and I have seen their writings all over the Internet .
Jam:
I truly understand your reaction to this retarded individual who made me really ashamed of being Sunni. Please do not generalize on all of us. He is as you have described him, but there are good sunnis. I am ashamed that we have like him, in all honesty.
JAM, you are not against the Assad regime, you are the refuse of the Assad regime. In that, you and your master Rif3at along with the rest of his lackeys were deported out of Syria because of your crimes, theft and pimping activities. Stop playing the victim you toad. Your likes have victimized Syrians for years and you're trying to bully this blog like your master has taught you to do on the streets of Damascus, much like you and your comrades did when you pulled out women veils on the streets of Damascus in 1981.
Yabrud, it was cute at first you playing 69 with JAM, and now it is becoming clear that you two are the same poster. Grow up moron.
Rifaat is your guy. You belonged to him an dsupported him until he was out. Your garbage that you throw from your mouth has no basis, and it sounds trhat for a Muslim , it is so easy to throw baseless accusations. Here it is again: The Assads are Sunnis you sob, when Assad came to power in 1970, he declared himself a Sunni, and of course he and his brothers, including your dirty Rifaat acted like the rest of the Sunni dirts, like you.
Show the world a proof of the dirt that comes out of your mouth. Prove it, or shut up.
But it is true, you lack morality since you are a true Muslim. Muslims are like you, liars, and cheaters. You have what is called the Cheating civilization. You rank as number one in the amount of lies you spew.
Beside your empty accusation of putting me in Rifaat side , which makes me feel angry as this is a big insult to me, I who hate every thing about the Assads , all of them, a family that permitted Sunnis to steal Syria in the name of an Alawi regime.
Viva all Alawis, and down with Assad and the Sunnis. Muslims are garbage. I am not a Muslim.
JAM wrote:
"But it is true, you lack morality since you are a true Muslim."
LOL. And with that, ladies and gentlmen (and anyone in between, meaning your JAM/Yabrud) we conclude today's broadcast. JAM here is losing it and he is starting to speak out of his arse. Sleep tight toe jam, you have a full day ahead of you tomorrow.
Why are you not at the Haj in Makah, mr. dirt?
Go wash up your sins by stonning the "devil" you retarded Sunni/
Naah, I would rather stone you right here, monkeyspank :)
hahahah, that was cute..
but honestly, you deserve to be there at the Haj, it is your natural place, and it is the natural thing for a pure muslim to do. There you would be beside your other million Hajis who stone the devil beside your profit. That is what you have made of islam, and your grand father, Moawyah is where your whole Islam belongs. An Islam of treachery and immorality. It is there where you deserve to be, and shame on you if you return without turning around the Kaabeh, and kiss the stone that represents Allah to you.
What you and your ilks need is an ocean of water to cleanse your dirt for you are a true Muslim.
JAM
After the MB takes over, Lebanon will be happy to grant citizenship to Syria's religious minorities.
Unlike you, at least my grandfather is identified....LOL
Sex is what your whole culture is all about, including your religion that has no worry but to give you 72 virgins and 100 boys in the sky. Mohammed, your profit had no known father as history testifies..
Anyway, glad you admitted that you belong to that bastard. Congratulations.
VOX,
There is no way in hell the Moslem Brotherhood will ever rule Syria. They will have the right like everyone else, but that is that. They will be lucky to bring more vote to the pol than the Baath Party candidates. My estime is like Egypt, about 20% at max. for the first time, then as Syrians progress under economic and social achievments, in a decade they will be lucky to get 5%, as Syrians will have became more politically active and organized.
All that is a dream as of now, because neither President Assad, nor anyone else is going to put Syria on the right track.
Just read some news:
1- Assad has ordered all corruption files to be open. Well, that what is attribute dto the Abrash.
2- Miro and others were stopped at the airport and prevented from leaving Syria.
Hopefully, the corrupt thugs that were stealing the country under the cover of an Alawi regime will be held accounatble. I can not understand how they were so dumb to let Khadam out while he was liquifying his property in Syria, and getting his family out. It seems that their Mukhabarat are only good at preventing ordinary Syrians from browsing some Internet sites.
JAM
Would be interested in hearing your opinion and suggestion about where we stand and what is next.
Would be nice if we can have a multimedia website with live webcast and live chat or streaming chat text. Had the U.S. State Department awarded us those grants we applied for more than a year ago, we would have this ready by now. They turned us down, try again they said. We could have asked Mr. Landis to invite President Assad to come here for live franks discussion and break those barriers and try to set Syria on the right track.
They (U.S. State Dept) spent close to Two Hundred million Dollars on crappy MEPI programs. All we asked for is $160,000. Shame.
No Metaz, we asked for less, $ 135.000, and that was more than 2 years ago. I see why you did not want us to file a second time. What a joke this MEPI is. It is yet another cash cow for retired diplomats like Derejian. It is effectiveness is far less than radio Sawa and Hurra.
In fact I read that less than 4% of the total funding awarded to indigious (Arabic speacking) NGO's
It is sick
Imad.
Ugarit you asked "as an expatriate syrian I was wondering if there is an attempt by any NGO's to propogate ideas of democracy, liberty, etc?"
To answer your question, there is one Syrian NGO I know of called FIRDOS (Fund for Integrated Rural Development of Syria) that is currently promoting the principles of democracy in the Syrian countryside and villages. While the primary purpose of the NGO is to improve the lives of village dwellers, transparent and gender-equal democracy is the instrument used to elect councils that then represent the villagers' interests to FIRDOS.
JAM what happened? Why all the insults against Muslims? Insult Alterion (even though we would all prefer you simply attack his logic and content only) but why generalize and attack muslims?
You are angry that the Alawi community has been generalized yet you commit the same mistake and condemn and generalize an entire religion. I am a proud sunni muslim and I am happy to announce that I refrain from throwing garbage at my neighbors doors!! Yes, shocking isn't it?
This backwardness you speak of is much more complex than simply blaming Islam. I think you are smart enough to realize that. I hate having to wade through all the insults in your posts because I know you do have so many good things to say at times.
Alterion--why did you delete all your posts? That is some kind of blogging sin I believe.
What logic, smart ass? When he insists that I belong to Rifaat Assad jsut because I am an Alawi opposing the regime, you call that nothing but logic?
I have seen so many posts all over the Inetenret by you Sunnis accusing people like Aref Dalilah as a spy inside his prison working for the Assad regime.
\
It is like you have read nothing I said above, and only saw my spo called insults against your fucking religion. Fuck your Islam.
Yes JAM that is exactly my point, because of all your insults, it causes lots of people like me to skip over what you have to say and not take your views seriously anymore. Don't you see that?
I will not take your views seriously as long as you spew ignorant hatred like "Fuck your Islam". Is that something you would say in your home community, in the Bay Area? You would be ostracized by your community if you did. But I think you would never dare. The anonymity of the internet gives you this chance. But it serves no purpose I promise you.
For most Alawis, the pain is double in opposing the regime as compared to the Sunnis who oppose!
We have to bear the oppression of the regime at the same time we are to fight the filth expressed by Sunnis and the doubts they express about one's stand. Even when an Alawi is imprisoned, or assassinated, Sunnis mock him, and pretend that this thing is only an act.
It is an honour for me to be fighting at both ends, for it is the truth that I fight for, and it is Justice that I value most. God created mankind and wished for him to be brave and to take a stand in life, and I have taken the honest stand to face oppression with courage, and the despicable people like you with a smile. My shoes are more honourable than your faces and your religion.
JAM
Idaf one thing bothers me about your letter that nobody mentioned--You say you want 100% proof that Syria did before you will be convinced.
You do realize that is most likely never going to happen?
It is rare to have 100% proof in criminal investigations. And I think it is near impossible in this case. So that implies you will always be in denial. So I am curious, in this real world where 100% is not going to happen--what will it take for you to believe that Syria did in fact carry out this crime?
Come on people, this is SyriaComment, not Rush Limbaugh (crazy right-wing radio host for you outside the US). Stop with the religious infighing already. This is becoming really stupid.
Eng. Chg.
I already asked Idaf this very important question. What metrics will he and others use to ascertain whether they have see enough "proof". As you asked, what is 100%? A secret camera and recorder of a Bashar/Asef/Maher meeting ordering the hit? Even then, it would be the Mossad which planted it in that office. Every so-called proof is likely to be analyzed and reanalyzed as a fabrication to bring down the regime. This is why criminals are always adviced to deny the crime. It is then the task of the prosecutors to offer irrefutable evidence. In this case, the proof will have to be super super irrefutable for Idaf and others to come back to us and admit that he has seen the 100% benchmark
I truely fear for Syria's future considering how many are writing on this site :-(
Here's some information on FIRDOS as noted by EngineeringChange
"In January 2004 a feasibility mission in Syria was conducted, with the support of Mrs. Asma Al Assad, First Lady of Syria, and the Fund for Integrated Rural Development, WLAR local partner. The results of this study revealed favorable conditions for the launch of the program. The two basic prerequisites needed - a basic technical infrastructure in a sufficient number of schools and an emerging group of teachers and teacher trainers familiar with basic uses of computers for teaching - are in place. The Minister of Education has endorsed the World Links Arab Region training program as it provides a natural complement and follow-up to existing computer literacy courses and lessons learned will provide valuable guidance for the Ministry's future plans.
Initial program plans are to train over 550 teachers in about 80 schools, which will benefit about 110,000 students in over five years throughout the majority of the governorates of Syria. FIRDOS, which will also include its schools in the program, has generously agreed to match WLAR funds for the program.
The Fund for Integrated Rural Development for Syria (FIRDOS) is a rural development NGO founded by Mrs. Asma Al Assad, First Lady of Syria , in 2001. FIRDOS' activities fall into three areas income generation, basic development needs (infrastructure and health) and education and training. These three basic program areas are designed to fit together to provide an integrated and comprehensive approach to development that can be applied in any given rural community. The key ingredient in FIRDOS's work is that it engages communities in taking an active role in changing their lives."
http://www.wlar.org/where-horizon.htm
Idaf your analysis and what a lot of Syrians say is this:
- Syria has the means and the motive
- Circumstatial evidence is pointing to Syria
- But, SYRIA CAN NOT BE THAT STUPID
So this raises 2 questions:
1) Is the act very stupid?
After the facts it looks very stupid but it follows a successful stategy that Syria used successfully in the past:
"Do one major act that scares away the enemy"
Hama was an example, blowing the marines in Lebanon was another. By acting decisfly and ruthlessly the regime was able to reach its objectives in the past.
If Hama created a whole international upheaval and Syria was boycotted and its president was requested in the Hague. Apologists would have said, well he is not that stupid, some army officers must have acted without orders (or better taking orders from Mossad).
In this case the calculus in Damascus could be let us send a big message to the Lebanese, let them know once and for all who is the master here, we will crush the biggest Lebanese who is against us. We will blow up the biggest one of them in the middle of Beirout with the biggest explosive we have.
2) Can they be stupid?
Ok so even though there was some logic to the act, it was faulty logic as the international community was primed against Syria already.
Let us analyse an act they did just before. Extending Lahoud, what a stupid thing to do. There was no need, they could have easily put another stooge in place.
Yet they did it and got a UN resolution hanging on their head because of it.
Do you think this was a smart or a stupid move?
Can they be that stupid?
You bet.
"The weight of ignorance should not be underestimated."
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I repeat again, I don't give a damn about what happened to Hariri, though I am very sad at what happened to Tweini, and some how my sadness has dimished slowly for Hariri, because the problem with the Syrian regime is much deeper and wider from an accusation of killing one man. Throughout the years, it was evident that the West didn't give a damn about the Human Rights in Syria, and Lebanon, and supported the Assad regime with its media balck out about its crimes both in Syria and Lebanon, and jumped to indicate their extreme pleasure in the instance Bashar was suggested as the inheritor of the Republic. Chirak, and Albright even announced their support and comfort at his nomination before any "legal" procedures took place, and before they knew what the Syrians thought..., and so, I say that I know that this Hariri thing is nothing but a measure of pressure against the regime to obtain some consessions for one or the others of the competing Western Powers for resources in Syria, or Lebanon, or for a geopolitical map in the Middle East...., but
But, though I am fully aware of that, and know in my heart that they, those assembling in the UN and claiming their love to know the truth about Hariri don't give a damn about Hariri, or a million other human beings slaughtered in any shape or fashion to achieve their goals, I am happy that this is happening to the Syrian Regime, and wish that the people of Syria can take advantage of this event to get in their turn some of their basic demands, and to free the political prisoners, especially those honourable Syrians of the so called Damascus Spring.
This is a regime that is used to crimes, and a regime that does not understand the language of words, or debates, and has absolutely no concern for human rights, human dignity, or as Idaf wants the world to abide by; 100 % proof before prooving some one as guilty. I wish Idaf can also call the Assad regime to apply this same principle when dealing with the Syrian people. Syrian suspects, suspects of having uttered a word against it, or against the statues that the criminal in eternity, Hafez Assad had built are condemened without even posing a question to them, and tortured in the dark inhuman cells of the Regime's jails.
Triumph to the truth, and Justice.
JAM
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Idaf,
As you craft your answer to my question above, I would like to preempt your answer and ask you a follow up question. This way, you could perhaps give us a joint answer.
You had earlier said the following:
“I ‘m not saying that the culprits should not face justice, I ‘m simply saying that, until now, we don’t know FOR SURE who exactly planned and committed it and until we become 100 PERCENT SURE it should be business as usual in Syria”
1- As I am sure you are well aware, verdicts in criminal investigations are rarely 100 percent sure certainly from the defendant’s standpoint.
2- In murder cases, in particular, all evidence of guilt other than eyewitness testimony is “circumstantial evidence”.
My follow up question, therefore, is would you accept “circumstantial evidence” in the Hariri case? Or, should we declare from now that “circumstantial evidence” does not count. Incidentally, lawyers have a legal term for people who take a dim view of circumstantial evidence: They are called “O.J. Jurors”. For the record, circumstantial evidence is admissible in court unless the connection between the fact and the inference is too weak to be of help in deciding the case. It is not direct evidence from a witness who saw or heard something. Particularly in murder trials, examples of circumstantial evidence include:
- The fact that the accused had an intense dislike of the victim
- The fact that the accused behaved in a suspicious way after the offence
- The fact that he or she lied
- The fact that he or she was in the area at the time
Idaf, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the subject. This will help us be mentally prepared, as the investigation gets closer to issue its final verdict one day.
What a useless discussion, the two of you are exchanging: """“I ‘m not saying that the culprits should not face justice, I ‘m simply saying that, until now, we don’t know FOR SURE who exactly planned and committed it and until we become 100 PERCENT SURE it should be business as usual in Syria”""""
No one has rendered a verdict yet. We are still in the investigation phase. All of what is going on now is some interviews that are required to get closer to determining who would be accused.
I know that in Syria, the accused of anything goes to jail right away, and is not allowed to post a bond, and is never asked a single question, not during his incarcenation, nor during the court proceedings. The judge does not even permit the accused to say a word, and 99% of accused have always been found guilty.
And we are still far from that phase yet, where the UN team will pronounce if any Syrian is to be jailed pending a court proceeding. The discussion now is only about how to question those Syrians and from there to establish whether they ar going to be accused or not. Why jump that far? I wish they apply the Syrian system when dealing with those Syrian suspects, and drive them all to jail right now, but that is not the case, unfortunately!
JAM
Useless discussion? Why are you getting involved then? As far as I can tell, the question was directed at a different person. Did anyone inform you that you don’t have to comment on everything that prints in the comments section, especially if you find it useless in the first place?
Israel will not allow regime change at this time, given the current circumnstances (Sharon, Iran). It has no clue who the next contender is, Khaddam is on its blacklist (and the US'), and befor back channels and agreements are established with the next regime it will not risk any change.
American Scenario: Let the Syrian regime stew on easy fire until the opposition and general public is prepared.
This serves two purposes, give the Baathists a hope and time to make some unheard of reforms, paving the way for the next regime.
And
Giving interested parties enough time to assess contenders and support them enough to be able to take power smoothly, after the regime has been weakened enough. Remember, if Assad decides to have elections, Baathists will have no jobs other than teaching (since they are good in sermons) and maybe driving cabs.
I don't see no change happening in the first half of 2006.
My opinion was different three days ago, I gave the regime about 3 more months, but now given my intelligence report, I see a deal in the making...unfortunately.
Saudi Arabia ( and Egypt)is now scared that reform and democratisation is becoming a trend in the Middle East, awakening Arabs from the Ocean to the Gulf, threatening its own monarchy.. Democratic awakening is a concern that the Kingdome has expressed to the US. A concern so serious that it prompted the King to interfere personally to save the Syrian regime.
God bless America, and its messed up foreign policy.
O.D.M.
DDDAAA...
That was along nap man. We been saying so for 5 months now.
Excerpt from the Guardians, U.K.….
“Nearby, workers were slaughtering hundreds of sheep to start the Eid. Saudi authorities have instituted a system whereby pilgrims purchase a coupon costing about $120. Sheep purchased through the system are slaughtered at special facilities and distributed to the needy. “
“In the Egyptian capital, Cairo, blood poured across sidewalks, apartment-building stairwells and rooftops as families slaughtered sheep and cows for the holiday. At shops strung with holiday lights, butchers used bicycle pumps to inflate the freshly killed livestock and separate the skin from the meat. Brightly-lit pleasure boats on the Nile were packed with families heading out for holiday picnics. “
This is disgusting, inhumane, primitive and savage, yet to reach an evolutionary step higher than bugs. Spiritually and morally bankrupt.
There are more than 350,000 species of nuts, seeds, fruit and vegetable on this planet. If you believe in GOD, then you should understand that he created these for you to eat and live of it not to walk on it. The barbaric idea that human needs to kill and eat meat (flesh) to survive, is inherited from a bygone era, during the lengthy Ice Age period, man in some areas of the planet had to survive, they had no seed and Animals were the only available source of food that can be hunted. It was a mean of survival.
We get all of today deadly diseases from eating flesh. Plants and seeds offer a more nutrient food source that is much more healthy and never make man sick.
The Spiritual value of the Slaughter and sacrifice is bankrupt. Especially, as mentioned in this article, permitted by the immoral-commercially oriented Saudi family that introduced this coupon method of sacrifice and slaughter.
I am not going to discuss the Abraham story, because it has no historic accuracy. But if say GOD requested and introduce this sacrifice of animals idea, bet it as atonement of sin or otherwise. Let me remind you that he ordered the individual to make his own kill and to pray to him and for the life of the Animal and say the “shihadah”. This is because GOD wants man to understand the nature of killing and that it is only in the name of GOD and for GOD. He wanted man to understand that killing for other purposes is not acceptable. He also wanted to bring compassion into man’s heart and graphically demonstrate to man the nature of killing.
The idea that a person, will pay for a coupon so that some worker supposedly slaughter a sheep for him awhile he is sitting in the comfort of his air conditioned Sheraton and Marriott Hotel room, defeats the very same purpose of which GOD could have introduced this practice and the intended purpose that he wanted man to feel and know.
As to committing this slaughter for the sin atonement purposes, How can such sinful act of killing and blood spilling in the street be a payoff for other sins that man committed. How about paying for those sins by taking a more positive deed that will payoff the negative sinful deed committed by man. Such as raising a sheep or Ten of them, impregnating one female one and let it enjoy the wonderful motherhood. Plant a tree or a forest and let it grow, plant a fruit tree or a hundred of them and let the trees bring abundance of fruits for those that never had the money to even buy it.
This Moslem practice, were inherited from older religion of the Jews-Hebrew, this coupon deal is more like what the Sadducee and the San Heedran of the Israeli Temple would have came up with. In fact they came up with all sort of this stuff that institutionalized religion and made it into enterprise totally devout of any personal experience between man and his GOD. They were destroyed.
Metaz K. M. Aldendeshe
Syrian Republican Party
The enlighten one
www.ssprs.com
ccc@ssprs.com
A second Version of this letter:
Excerpt from the Guardians, U.K.….
“Nearby, workers were slaughtering hundreds of sheep to start the Eid. Saudi authorities have instituted a system whereby pilgrims purchase a coupon costing about $120. Sheep purchased through the system are slaughtered at special facilities and distributed to the needy. “
“In the Egyptian capital, Cairo, blood poured across sidewalks, apartment-building stairwells and rooftops as families slaughtered sheep and cows for the holiday. At shops strung with holiday lights, butchers used bicycle pumps to inflate the freshly killed livestock and separate the skin from the meat. Brightly-lit pleasure boats on the Nile were packed with families heading out for holiday picnics. “
Coupon!!! This is inhumane, spiritually and morally bankrupt.
There are more than 350,000 species of nuts, seeds, fruit and vegetable on this planet. If you believe in GOD, then you should understand that he created these for you to eat and live of it, not to walk on it. The barbaric idea that human needs to kill and eat meat (flesh) to survive, is inherited from a bygone era, during the lengthy Ice Age period, man in some areas of the planet had to survive, they had no seeds and Animals were the only available source of food that can be hunted. It was a means of survival.
We get all of today deadly diseases from eating flesh. Plants and seeds offer a more nutrient food source that is much more healthy and never make man sick.
The Spiritual value of the Slaughter and sacrifice using Government purchased “COUPONS” is bankrupt. The immoral-commercially oriented Saudi family that introduced this “COUPON” method of sacrifice and slaughter is running yet another San Heedran and Saducee or Modern day Christian Catholic commercial scam, clothed in religious practices.
I am not going to discuss the Abraham story, because it has no historic accuracy. But if say GOD requested and introduce this sacrifice of animals idea, because it is as atonement of sin or otherwise. Let me remind you that he ordered the individual to make his own kill, slaughter and to pray to him and for the life of the Animal and say the “SHIHADA”. This is because GOD wants man to understand the nature of killing, the sacrifice, and that it should be only in the name of GOD and for GOD. He wanted man to understand that killing for other purposes is not acceptable. He also wanted to bring compassion into man’s heart and graphically demonstrate to man the nature of killing.
The idea that a person, will pay for a “COUPON” so that some worker supposedly slaughter a sheep for him at the Saudi Facilities awhile he is sitting in the comfort of his air conditioned Sheraton and Marriott Hotel room, defeats the very same purpose of which GOD could have introduced this practice and the intended purpose that he wanted man to feel and know.
As to committing this slaughter for the sin atonement purposes, How can such sinful act of killing and blood spilling in the street be a payoff for other sins that man committed. How about paying for those sins by taking a more positive deed that will payoff the negative sinful deed committed by man. Such as raising a sheep or Ten of them, impregnating one female one and let it enjoy the wonderful motherhood. Plant a tree or a forest and let it grow, plant a fruit tree or a hundred of them and let the trees bring abundance of fruits for those that never had the money to even buy it.
This Moslem practice, were inherited from older religion of the Jews-Hebrew, this Saudi “COUPON” deal is more like what the Jewish Sadducee and the San Heedran of the Israeli Temple would have came up with. In fact they came up with all sort of this stuff that institutionalized religion and made it into enterprise totally devout of any personal experience between man and his GOD. They were destroyed.
This “COUPON” is just as commercial and devout of the intended spiritual experience and value as the pressing the play button, on of the tape recorder, to mechanically play the “Shihada” at the New Zealand Slaughter House by a Buddhist Chinese laborer, before switching on the electric blade to slaughter the poor Animal. Is this really “HALAL”
In both cases this is not what GOD intended purpose. For as long as there is no direct involvement of the individual with his god, the practice is nothing more than cheating GOD and man.
Metaz K. M. Aldendeshe
Syrian Republican Party
The enlighten one
www.ssprs.com
ccc@ssprs.com
Metaz you're telling us that you're vegeteria?
JAM,
I think that you're right on this discussion being premature at this point of time, but let me clarify my position.
EngineeringChange and Ehsani,
I think that I would be convinced by a conviction! A legal one.
I need a court conviction because logic, world events and common sense indicate that they probably did not do it. A report is not enough (even a UN one) specially when half of its information would be factually "null and void" few weeks after its publication. While some might find this hard to understand, the non-stop media and political campaigns to me are not convincing. Repeating statements again and again in different forms does not make them more convincing. Listing grievances again and again as a method of proving a point are not convincing in my book. News are not necessarily facts. Country-sponsored, party-sponsored or individual-sponsored PR campaigns are just noise that you should overcome to find facts (this is one thing that I learnt from the Syrian state media.. and now more so from the US administration lead PR campaigns). Given everything, unfortunately the media is becoming less factual everyday as it is being used as a tool of manipulating the public. This skepticism is a must for making sense of the event in our region. The US did pay for its version of facts in the media in Iraq and Lebanon among other places. If the "beacon of freedom" is doing it, then I'm sure everybody else is doing it. The one honest thing about the Syrian regime (you can also say that it is the stupidest) is that it does not sponsor news and PR campaigns outside the Syrian media (unlike the US, the Saudi, the Lebanese politicians and even Saddam earlier). The Lebanese media is in an even worse situation as it's not just easily vulnerable to financial pressures but also to emotional ones, which is a lethal combination for a media outlet's credibility. One example of what I'm saying is here, but you have to overlook the sugar coating statements such as "spreading peace through commerce"!
I hope that you do understand what I'm saying! I'm saying that the circumstantial evidence we have in hand are not that trustworthy and that the truth about who the culprits are is becoming less relivent as a basis for actions taken by different players. This is why I'm argueing that no action (that would jeopardize the Syrian people's interest) should be taken until we have a better view. Again, I'm not saying that the regime did not do it for sure. I'm not sure what a "benchmark" for making a final judgment would be. This is up to a judge to decide. Until then everyone is innocent until proven otherwise. My conviction would only be based on the clear and indisputable facts on the ground. The 100% proof might be a complicated sequence of events or a simple thing (maybe Asma Al-Assad coming on CNN stating that she overheard Bashar on the phone ordering Ghazali to kill Hariri! Khaddam and Junblat are not a good enough reason). I'm just analyzing the hard-sought facts in hand, not what I'm being told by the not-so-free (to say the least) media in this region, not to mention every other politician with an agenda. These facts and details are creating the understanding of events that I have. May be it is weird for some, but I claim that I can make sense of data and facts from an emotionally-neutral perspective (even when I'm personally affected by these events). May be it's a gift, but then again may be not!
Whenever you feel the urge to throw an accusation against the Syrian regime (or even on Bush for that matter) think about the WMD/Al-Qaida-Saddam "facts" that were considered irrefutable publicly for years in most media outlets. You don't want to be in this position again a year from now saying to yourself "I was deceived?!". If Syria was a small island in the Indian Ocean I'm sure that I would have subjected the news for less scrutiny before accepting them as facts. Unfortunately Syria is in the center of the interests of every superpower, mid-power, "non-power" and maybe even Austin Power! This makes very few politically-oriented news on it objective or even factual (either from the regime or from its rivals). I have to say that the blogosphere is definitely helping in this "fact-mining" mission.
Nafdik,
I advise you to reread my analysis. My analysis and what MOST Syrians (I've met) say:
- Syria had the means.
-Many other suspects also had the means and motives.
- The SYRIAN REGIME CAN NOT BE THAT STUPID.
- "Some" circumstantial evidence is pointing to Syria
- Nobody checked other circumstantial evidence clearly pointing to other suspects!
-According to criminal rule: the parties that benefited most are most likely the culprits.
-It was obvious since 1559 that such a crime would let hell loose on Syria, regardless of who did it.
-Syria was the sole suspect since day one.
Conclusion: I'm not convinced that the Syrian regime did it.
Your conclusions are flawed because your argument (about my analysis) was not constructed correctly. You also said:
"In this case the calculus in Damascus could be let us send a big message to the Lebanese, let them know once and for all who is the master here, we will crush the biggest Lebanese who is against us. We will blow up the biggest one of them in the middle of Beirut with the biggest explosive we have."
This in no doubt is the most used argument in the media. Can you explain to me why the Syrian regime continued to do it again and again and again and again and again if it was extremely unsuccessful and it keeps causing the devastating counter effects on them time and time again?!
I did not condone the Lahoud affaire back then, but if you want to be reasonable, if Hariri was not killed (and all the aftermath) would all the pressures and campaigns have been launched at Syria? I doubt it. Hizballa would still be as powerful as it was (not as weak as it is now) and Syria would still be dominating Lebanon with help from most of the current 14 March politicians. Again is it possible that it was Syria? You be, but considering the facts we have till now, there are 2 other parties that have more weight as suspects.
This "not-so-cool" analysis might seem "ignorant" to some. At least they are built on facts not emotionally-charged pretexts and profiles.
Very good comment ODM !
Idaf,
Thank you
Time will only tell Idaf,
I like you agree that it is a bunch of flimsy evidence on parade now.
I think Syria did do it, but I don't think there is and ever will be evidence to prove it. But I think the US and UN will push whatever they have as the "truth" and try to punish Syria anyway. Yes, like you said, Iraq and WMD all over again. That is the dangerous part, some people are already convinced Syria for sure has done it and will do everything they can to get what is in their own minds a rightous justice.
Idaf:
It is known that ex president of Syria, dictator in his time had allowed and even encouraged corruption to be committed by the ministers and other responsible people he chose to be with him, but yet kept a conceret record about each one to face him with when the time comes and when needed to do so.
from the above paragraph, and the concise record that you have printed about Mr. Khadam's past and finanicial dealing, I can not but conclude with certainty that you work for one or another branch of the Syrian Nukhabarat.
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